From damien.pollet at gmail.com  Mon Dec  3 23:35:16 2007
From: damien.pollet at gmail.com (Damien Pollet)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 23:35:16 +0100
Subject: Extracting a pier root
In-Reply-To: <66666f210702250515x125e09ffg9ba49c9748cb835b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6ac749c10702250504w69b523d3s270898822c370879@mail.gmail.com>
	<66666f210702250515x125e09ffg9ba49c9748cb835b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <34b4844b0712031435r1021871p9b90b4e8b5a225fc@mail.gmail.com>

On 25/02/2007, Philippe Marschall <philippe.marschall at gmail.com> wrote:
> 2007/2/25, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou at gmail.com>:
> > what is the best solution to extract a pier website from an image and
> > put the extracted root into another image ?
>
> Assuming you don't use magma:
> I'd say grab the kernel, file it out with ReferenceStream and file it
> in the other image (you'll have to add it to the instances). Maybe
> you'll have to nil out the mutex in the persistency instance, you'll
> find out if filing out will give an error.

I'm trying to do the same... ReferenceStream doesn't work because it
encounters a BlockContext in the process (eg. some Magritte condition
on the number of posts the blog should show).

I'm trying to go the Magma way but it won't install' either via
Universes or MC. Magma seaside says it needs WADispatcherControlPanel
(I'm following the load order from http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/5902
)

Any suggestion ?

-- 
Damien Pollet
type less, do more [ | ] http://typo.cdlm.fasmz.org

From avanos at xs4all.nl  Mon Dec  3 23:40:44 2007
From: avanos at xs4all.nl (Adriaan van Os)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 23:40:44 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Extracting a pier root
Message-ID: <24366.213.84.174.51.1196721644.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>

I'm using SIXX to move a site from one image to another.

HTH,
Adriaan.

> On 25/02/2007, Philippe Marschall <philippe.marschall at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 2007/2/25, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou at gmail.com>:
>> > what is the best solution to extract a pier website from an image and
>> > put the extracted root into another image ?
>>
>> Assuming you don't use magma:
>> I'd say grab the kernel, file it out with ReferenceStream and file it
>> in the other image (you'll have to add it to the instances). Maybe
>> you'll have to nil out the mutex in the persistency instance, you'll
>> find out if filing out will give an error.
>
> I'm trying to do the same... ReferenceStream doesn't work because it
> encounters a BlockContext in the process (eg. some Magritte condition
> on the number of posts the blog should show).
>
> I'm trying to go the Magma way but it won't install' either via
> Universes or MC. Magma seaside says it needs WADispatcherControlPanel
> (I'm following the load order from http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/5902
> )
>
> Any suggestion ?
>
> --
> Damien Pollet
> type less, do more [ | ] http://typo.cdlm.fasmz.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>


-- 
http://www.a3aan.st


From damien.pollet at gmail.com  Mon Dec  3 23:53:56 2007
From: damien.pollet at gmail.com (Damien Pollet)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 23:53:56 +0100
Subject: Extracting a pier root
In-Reply-To: <24366.213.84.174.51.1196721644.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
References: <24366.213.84.174.51.1196721644.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <34b4844b0712031453j27cdc08dv37814625016787d1@mail.gmail.com>

On 03/12/2007, Adriaan van Os <avanos at xs4all.nl> wrote:
> I'm using SIXX to move a site from one image to another.

Thanks for the suggestion. Are you doing something particular?
SIXX (latest from squeakmap) doesn't load in my 3.10 image...


>
> HTH,
> Adriaan.
>
> > On 25/02/2007, Philippe Marschall <philippe.marschall at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> 2007/2/25, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou at gmail.com>:
> >> > what is the best solution to extract a pier website from an image and
> >> > put the extracted root into another image ?
> >>
> >> Assuming you don't use magma:
> >> I'd say grab the kernel, file it out with ReferenceStream and file it
> >> in the other image (you'll have to add it to the instances). Maybe
> >> you'll have to nil out the mutex in the persistency instance, you'll
> >> find out if filing out will give an error.
> >
> > I'm trying to do the same... ReferenceStream doesn't work because it
> > encounters a BlockContext in the process (eg. some Magritte condition
> > on the number of posts the blog should show).
> >
> > I'm trying to go the Magma way but it won't install' either via
> > Universes or MC. Magma seaside says it needs WADispatcherControlPanel
> > (I'm following the load order from http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/5902
> > )
> >
> > Any suggestion ?
> >
> > --
> > Damien Pollet
> > type less, do more [ | ] http://typo.cdlm.fasmz.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
> >
>
>
> --
> http://www.a3aan.st
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>


-- 
Damien Pollet
type less, do more [ | ] http://typo.cdlm.fasmz.org

From damien.pollet at gmail.com  Tue Dec  4 00:04:35 2007
From: damien.pollet at gmail.com (Damien Pollet)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 00:04:35 +0100
Subject: Extracting a pier root
In-Reply-To: <34b4844b0712031453j27cdc08dv37814625016787d1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <24366.213.84.174.51.1196721644.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<34b4844b0712031453j27cdc08dv37814625016787d1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <34b4844b0712031504x798a2ab4qbaa02bc6543d3764@mail.gmail.com>

My bad, didn't see it in the universes browser.

On 03/12/2007, Damien Pollet <damien.pollet at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 03/12/2007, Adriaan van Os <avanos at xs4all.nl> wrote:
> > I'm using SIXX to move a site from one image to another.
>
> Thanks for the suggestion. Are you doing something particular?
> SIXX (latest from squeakmap) doesn't load in my 3.10 image...
>
>
> >
> > HTH,
> > Adriaan.
> >
> > > On 25/02/2007, Philippe Marschall <philippe.marschall at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> 2007/2/25, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou at gmail.com>:
> > >> > what is the best solution to extract a pier website from an image and
> > >> > put the extracted root into another image ?
> > >>
> > >> Assuming you don't use magma:
> > >> I'd say grab the kernel, file it out with ReferenceStream and file it
> > >> in the other image (you'll have to add it to the instances). Maybe
> > >> you'll have to nil out the mutex in the persistency instance, you'll
> > >> find out if filing out will give an error.
> > >
> > > I'm trying to do the same... ReferenceStream doesn't work because it
> > > encounters a BlockContext in the process (eg. some Magritte condition
> > > on the number of posts the blog should show).
> > >
> > > I'm trying to go the Magma way but it won't install' either via
> > > Universes or MC. Magma seaside says it needs WADispatcherControlPanel
> > > (I'm following the load order from http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/5902
> > > )
> > >
> > > Any suggestion ?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Damien Pollet
> > > type less, do more [ | ] http://typo.cdlm.fasmz.org
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> > > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://www.a3aan.st
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
> >
>
>
> --
> Damien Pollet
> type less, do more [ | ] http://typo.cdlm.fasmz.org
>


-- 
Damien Pollet
type less, do more [ | ] http://typo.cdlm.fasmz.org

From avanos at xs4all.nl  Tue Dec  4 00:05:10 2007
From: avanos at xs4all.nl (Adriaan van Os)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 00:05:10 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Extracting a pier root
Message-ID: <22003.213.84.174.51.1196723110.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>

Haven't tried anything with 3.10. I'm using SIXX 0.2c with 2.9.

> On 03/12/2007, Adriaan van Os <avanos at xs4all.nl> wrote:
>> I'm using SIXX to move a site from one image to another.
>
> Thanks for the suggestion. Are you doing something particular?
> SIXX (latest from squeakmap) doesn't load in my 3.10 image...
>
>
>>
>> HTH,
>> Adriaan.
>>
>> > On 25/02/2007, Philippe Marschall <philippe.marschall at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> 2007/2/25, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou at gmail.com>:
>> >> > what is the best solution to extract a pier website from an image
>> and
>> >> > put the extracted root into another image ?
>> >>
>> >> Assuming you don't use magma:
>> >> I'd say grab the kernel, file it out with ReferenceStream and file it
>> >> in the other image (you'll have to add it to the instances). Maybe
>> >> you'll have to nil out the mutex in the persistency instance, you'll
>> >> find out if filing out will give an error.
>> >
>> > I'm trying to do the same... ReferenceStream doesn't work because it
>> > encounters a BlockContext in the process (eg. some Magritte condition
>> > on the number of posts the blog should show).
>> >
>> > I'm trying to go the Magma way but it won't install' either via
>> > Universes or MC. Magma seaside says it needs WADispatcherControlPanel
>> > (I'm following the load order from http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/5902
>> > )
>> >
>> > Any suggestion ?
>> >
>> > --
>> > Damien Pollet
>> > type less, do more [ | ] http://typo.cdlm.fasmz.org
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
>> > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://www.a3aan.st
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>>
>
>
> --
> Damien Pollet
> type less, do more [ | ] http://typo.cdlm.fasmz.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>


-- 
http://www.a3aan.st


From damien.pollet at gmail.com  Tue Dec  4 00:42:17 2007
From: damien.pollet at gmail.com (Damien Pollet)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 00:42:17 +0100
Subject: Extracting a pier root
In-Reply-To: <22003.213.84.174.51.1196723110.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
References: <22003.213.84.174.51.1196723110.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <34b4844b0712031542jd76703r8a3372427dfd826d@mail.gmail.com>

On 04/12/2007, Adriaan van Os <avanos at xs4all.nl> wrote:
> Haven't tried anything with 3.10. I'm using SIXX 0.2c with 2.9.

wow :)

So serializing the kernel out to a file worked directly, but when
loading the .sixx file back in another image, it tries to put a nil
inside a set, and the set complains. What could replace some object by
a nil like that? unserializable object on one end, or missing classes
in the new image?
I think I have the same classes available, but it's late, I will check later?

Anyway, thanks

> > On 03/12/2007, Adriaan van Os <avanos at xs4all.nl> wrote:
> >> I'm using SIXX to move a site from one image to another.
> >
> > Thanks for the suggestion. Are you doing something particular?
> > SIXX (latest from squeakmap) doesn't load in my 3.10 image...
> >
> >
> >>
> >> HTH,
> >> Adriaan.
> >>
> >> > On 25/02/2007, Philippe Marschall <philippe.marschall at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> 2007/2/25, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou at gmail.com>:
> >> >> > what is the best solution to extract a pier website from an image
> >> and
> >> >> > put the extracted root into another image ?
> >> >>
> >> >> Assuming you don't use magma:
> >> >> I'd say grab the kernel, file it out with ReferenceStream and file it
> >> >> in the other image (you'll have to add it to the instances). Maybe
> >> >> you'll have to nil out the mutex in the persistency instance, you'll
> >> >> find out if filing out will give an error.
> >> >
> >> > I'm trying to do the same... ReferenceStream doesn't work because it
> >> > encounters a BlockContext in the process (eg. some Magritte condition
> >> > on the number of posts the blog should show).
> >> >
> >> > I'm trying to go the Magma way but it won't install' either via
> >> > Universes or MC. Magma seaside says it needs WADispatcherControlPanel
> >> > (I'm following the load order from http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/5902
> >> > )
> >> >
> >> > Any suggestion ?
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Damien Pollet
> >> > type less, do more [ | ] http://typo.cdlm.fasmz.org
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> >> > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> http://www.a3aan.st
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Damien Pollet
> > type less, do more [ | ] http://typo.cdlm.fasmz.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
> >
>
>
> --
> http://www.a3aan.st
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>


-- 
Damien Pollet
type less, do more [ | ] http://typo.cdlm.fasmz.org


From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Tue Dec  4 09:39:45 2007
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 09:39:45 +0100
Subject: Extracting a pier root
In-Reply-To: <34b4844b0712031542jd76703r8a3372427dfd826d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <22003.213.84.174.51.1196723110.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<34b4844b0712031542jd76703r8a3372427dfd826d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5BB61D64-1D46-44B2-8D75-4406317CD08A@iam.unibe.ch>

> So serializing the kernel out to a file worked directly, but when
> loading the .sixx file back in another image, it tries to put a nil
> inside a set, and the set complains. What could replace some object by
> a nil like that? unserializable object on one end, or missing classes
> in the new image?

This sounds like the Set is not properly hashed. Probably due to a bug  
in the SIXX Set serialization.

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch


From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Tue Dec  4 09:48:47 2007
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 09:48:47 +0100
Subject: Extracting a pier root
In-Reply-To: <5BB61D64-1D46-44B2-8D75-4406317CD08A@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <22003.213.84.174.51.1196723110.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<34b4844b0712031542jd76703r8a3372427dfd826d@mail.gmail.com>
	<5BB61D64-1D46-44B2-8D75-4406317CD08A@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <AAD6654B-B372-4F78-995A-16B931C2EF3D@iam.unibe.ch>

>> So serializing the kernel out to a file worked directly, but when
>> loading the .sixx file back in another image, it tries to put a nil
>> inside a set, and the set complains. What could replace some object  
>> by
>> a nil like that? unserializable object on one end, or missing classes
>> in the new image?
>
> This sounds like the Set is not properly hashed. Probably due to a bug
> in the SIXX Set serialization.

It would be really cool if we could get that working.

I find SIXX very interesting because it would potentially allow to  
exchange Pier instances between the different Smalltalk dialects:  
Squeak, GemStone and VisualWorks.

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch


From manuel.blanc at gmail.com  Tue Dec  4 11:06:30 2007
From: manuel.blanc at gmail.com (M. Blanc)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 11:06:30 +0100
Subject: Extracting a pier root
In-Reply-To: <AAD6654B-B372-4F78-995A-16B931C2EF3D@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <22003.213.84.174.51.1196723110.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<34b4844b0712031542jd76703r8a3372427dfd826d@mail.gmail.com>
	<5BB61D64-1D46-44B2-8D75-4406317CD08A@iam.unibe.ch>
	<AAD6654B-B372-4F78-995A-16B931C2EF3D@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <7C117142-2096-4E09-929A-0D4919F91655@gmail.com>


On 4 Dec 2007, at 09:48, Lukas Renggli wrote:

>>> So serializing the kernel out to a file worked directly, but when
>>> loading the .sixx file back in another image, it tries to put a nil
>>> inside a set, and the set complains. What could replace some object
>>> by
>>> a nil like that? unserializable object on one end, or missing  
>>> classes
>>> in the new image?
>>
>> This sounds like the Set is not properly hashed. Probably due to a  
>> bug
>> in the SIXX Set serialization.
>
> It would be really cool if we could get that working.

These snippets run fine on an out-of-the box Pier from Seaside.530

| stream |
stream := ReferenceStream fileNamed: 'export.obj'.
stream nextPut: (PRKernel instanceNamed: 'Pier') root sixxString.
stream close.

| stream |
stream := ReferenceStream fileNamed: 'export.obj'.
(PRKernel instanceNamed: 'Pier') root: (Object readSixxFrom: stream  
next).
stream close.

So, what is that is not working?

Cheers
--mbj

From damien.pollet at gmail.com  Tue Dec  4 13:53:13 2007
From: damien.pollet at gmail.com (Damien Pollet)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 13:53:13 +0100
Subject: Extracting a pier root
In-Reply-To: <7C117142-2096-4E09-929A-0D4919F91655@gmail.com>
References: <22003.213.84.174.51.1196723110.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<34b4844b0712031542jd76703r8a3372427dfd826d@mail.gmail.com>
	<5BB61D64-1D46-44B2-8D75-4406317CD08A@iam.unibe.ch>
	<AAD6654B-B372-4F78-995A-16B931C2EF3D@iam.unibe.ch>
	<7C117142-2096-4E09-929A-0D4919F91655@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <34b4844b0712040453s2b7f38f5vfcb40baec5113c1d@mail.gmail.com>

On 04/12/2007, M. Blanc <manuel.blanc at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> This sounds like the Set is not properly hashed. Probably due to a
> >> bug
> >> in the SIXX Set serialization.
> >
> > It would be really cool if we could get that working.
>
> These snippets run fine on an out-of-the box Pier from Seaside.530
>
> | stream |
> stream := ReferenceStream fileNamed: 'export.obj'.
> stream nextPut: (PRKernel instanceNamed: 'Pier') root sixxString.
> stream close.

Why use a ReferenceStream to store XML in a file?

> So, what is that is not working?

I'm not sure? I installed a few add-ons and use Pier-Security.
Those refer to classes from the objects inside the PRKernel (so
serializing with a ReferenceStream would end up serializing the whole
class hierarchy. Also, as I said, some objects store BlockContexts
from Magritte conditions, and it seems ReferenceStream doesn't want to
serialize these.

I'm not really clear why SIXX would know better about how to serialize
stuff than ReferenceStream?

-- 
Damien Pollet
type less, do more [ | ] http://typo.cdlm.fasmz.org


From manuel.blanc at gmail.com  Tue Dec  4 14:40:52 2007
From: manuel.blanc at gmail.com (M. Blanc)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 14:40:52 +0100
Subject: Extracting a pier root
In-Reply-To: <34b4844b0712040453s2b7f38f5vfcb40baec5113c1d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <22003.213.84.174.51.1196723110.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<34b4844b0712031542jd76703r8a3372427dfd826d@mail.gmail.com>
	<5BB61D64-1D46-44B2-8D75-4406317CD08A@iam.unibe.ch>
	<AAD6654B-B372-4F78-995A-16B931C2EF3D@iam.unibe.ch>
	<7C117142-2096-4E09-929A-0D4919F91655@gmail.com>
	<34b4844b0712040453s2b7f38f5vfcb40baec5113c1d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8346D79E-8A62-4271-AAC7-1A23836458A4@gmail.com>


On 4 Dec 2007, at 13:53, Damien Pollet wrote:

> On 04/12/2007, M. Blanc <manuel.blanc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> This sounds like the Set is not properly hashed. Probably due to a
>>>> bug
>>>> in the SIXX Set serialization.
>>>
>>> It would be really cool if we could get that working.
>>
>> These snippets run fine on an out-of-the box Pier from Seaside.530
>>
>> | stream |
>> stream := ReferenceStream fileNamed: 'export.obj'.
>> stream nextPut: (PRKernel instanceNamed: 'Pier') root sixxString.
>> stream close.
>
> Why use a ReferenceStream to store XML in a file?

Testing hygiene

>
>> So, what is that is not working?
>
> I'm not sure? I installed a few add-ons and use Pier-Security.
> Those refer to classes from the objects inside the PRKernel (so
> serializing with a ReferenceStream would end up serializing the whole
> class hierarchy. Also, as I said, some objects store BlockContexts
> from Magritte conditions, and it seems ReferenceStream doesn't want to
> serialize these.
>
> I'm not really clear why SIXX would know better about how to serialize
> stuff than ReferenceStream?

It's not the point, but Sixx alone is also running fine with a fresh  
Pier on Seaside.530

| sws |
sws := SixxWriteStream newFileNamed: 'Pier.xml'.
sws nextPut: (PRKernel instanceNamed: 'Pier') root.
sws close.

| srs |
srs := SixxReadStream readOnlyFileNamed: 'Pier.xml'.
(PRKernel instanceNamed: 'Pier') root: srs next.
srs close.

Why don't you try your add-ons one by one?

Cheers
--mbj



From smalltalk at fixinsbar.com  Wed Dec  5 15:07:07 2007
From: smalltalk at fixinsbar.com (smalltalk@fixinsbar.com)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 08:07:07 -0600
Subject: Semantic Web using Magritte
Message-ID: <20071205080707.hvj1j8z7kw8og4oc@74.53.12.222>

I was wondering if anyone tried to do any kind of XML mapping using  
Magritte. I have the requirement to generate RDF from my business  
objects, so I was thinking of ways to simplify this. My idea was to  
add something in the Magritte descriptions for each object that  
pointed to the appropriate URI and schema.

This may be more trouble than its worth. I suppose anyone who has done  
anything with generating XML from Magritte could maybe provide some  
insight on any hurdles they faced, design ideas, etc.

I also am looking at Magritte for simplifying XML serialization in  
general. My problem overall is that I have to generate all these  
formats (XML for web service, RSS, ATOM, RDF) and I do not want to  
have to write a complex parser to even do this 1/2 way dynamically.  
Are there any other libraries out there that do this already? For  
instance, I did notice that there is that library (name escapes me)  
that lets you port your objects between Smalltalk versions by dumping  
to XML files, so that is somewhat close to what I need to do.

I am thinking since I already have a large number of Magritte  
descriptions, I might as well expand upon that. This will also let me  
do things like change a schema dynamically and provide easy access  
memento objects to do things like create a preview of whatever format  
I am trying to produce. Thoughts?



From philippe.marschall at gmail.com  Wed Dec  5 15:23:14 2007
From: philippe.marschall at gmail.com (Philippe Marschall)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:23:14 +0100
Subject: Semantic Web using Magritte
In-Reply-To: <20071205080707.hvj1j8z7kw8og4oc@74.53.12.222>
References: <20071205080707.hvj1j8z7kw8og4oc@74.53.12.222>
Message-ID: <66666f210712050623t4fc15f43qe7ab420c2e07d674@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

For audioscrobbler I did the opposite, from given XML to Magritte:
http://source.lukas-renggli.ch/audioscrobbler.html
The audioscrobbler xml is quite gay and I was surprised when I got it
working. It is also used for feed parsing of the Seaside homepage.

Cheers
Philippe

2007/12/5, smalltalk at fixinsbar.com <smalltalk at fixinsbar.com>:
> I was wondering if anyone tried to do any kind of XML mapping using
> Magritte. I have the requirement to generate RDF from my business
> objects, so I was thinking of ways to simplify this. My idea was to
> add something in the Magritte descriptions for each object that
> pointed to the appropriate URI and schema.
>
> This may be more trouble than its worth. I suppose anyone who has done
> anything with generating XML from Magritte could maybe provide some
> insight on any hurdles they faced, design ideas, etc.
>
> I also am looking at Magritte for simplifying XML serialization in
> general. My problem overall is that I have to generate all these
> formats (XML for web service, RSS, ATOM, RDF) and I do not want to
> have to write a complex parser to even do this 1/2 way dynamically.
> Are there any other libraries out there that do this already? For
> instance, I did notice that there is that library (name escapes me)
> that lets you port your objects between Smalltalk versions by dumping
> to XML files, so that is somewhat close to what I need to do.
>
> I am thinking since I already have a large number of Magritte
> descriptions, I might as well expand upon that. This will also let me
> do things like change a schema dynamically and provide easy access
> memento objects to do things like create a preview of whatever format
> I am trying to produce. Thoughts?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>

From smalltalk at fixinsbar.com  Wed Dec  5 15:33:46 2007
From: smalltalk at fixinsbar.com (smalltalk@fixinsbar.com)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 08:33:46 -0600
Subject: Semantic Web using Magritte
In-Reply-To: <66666f210712050623t4fc15f43qe7ab420c2e07d674@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071205080707.hvj1j8z7kw8og4oc@74.53.12.222>
	<66666f210712050623t4fc15f43qe7ab420c2e07d674@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071205083346.5tuwup568s04888k@74.53.12.222>

Thanks for the input, I had definitely considered that. I was even  
looking at XSLT but I really like keeping everything in Smalltalk. I  
do indeed need to go many directions since there are many entry points  
and services with this application. I also have explored creating new  
canvases and doing some things with Readers/Writers like in Pier.

I would do exactly what your describing, but I still am left with the  
problem of generating good output from my objects. So for example,  
sticking with music, say we have an Album object. I have all kinds of  
stuff already for Magritte in there for this object. Now I want to do  
something like in my seaside control provide an RDF button that when  
clicked, generates the RDF output. I would need to traverse the entire  
object/description graph and output the RDF with the album name,  
title, etc. and the track listing, and then artist info, etc. It  
definitely would suck without the metadata to identify which RDF URI  
corresponds with each object in the graph.

Essentially, I am thinking of creating a simpler  
serializer/deserializer driven by Magritte descriptions similar to  
what I've done before in .NET and Java. I am just not sure if that is  
very Smalltalk like as I like to always think there is a better way  
than resorting to what I have done in those languages :)

For instance, there is a JSON serializer in .NET where I can say  
Album.ToJSON(), or the XML serializer Album.ToXML(). It so happens  
that depending on the serializer/deserializer, it will read attributes  
I put on my class like [XmlIgnore]. That stuff is really primitive I  
think compared to what I can do in Magritte.

I guess I am trying to prevent a future meltdown because as this  
application is developed, I am going to have to start going back and  
forth with lots of web services to communicate with Java and Flash in  
particular. I want to set a good example on the Smalltalk side by  
generating everything automagically.

Quoting Philippe Marschall <philippe.marschall at gmail.com>:

> Hi
>
> For audioscrobbler I did the opposite, from given XML to Magritte:
> http://source.lukas-renggli.ch/audioscrobbler.html
> The audioscrobbler xml is quite gay and I was surprised when I got it
> working. It is also used for feed parsing of the Seaside homepage.
>
> Cheers
> Philippe
>
> 2007/12/5, smalltalk at fixinsbar.com <smalltalk at fixinsbar.com>:
>> I was wondering if anyone tried to do any kind of XML mapping using
>> Magritte. I have the requirement to generate RDF from my business
>> objects, so I was thinking of ways to simplify this. My idea was to
>> add something in the Magritte descriptions for each object that
>> pointed to the appropriate URI and schema.
>>
>> This may be more trouble than its worth. I suppose anyone who has done
>> anything with generating XML from Magritte could maybe provide some
>> insight on any hurdles they faced, design ideas, etc.
>>
>> I also am looking at Magritte for simplifying XML serialization in
>> general. My problem overall is that I have to generate all these
>> formats (XML for web service, RSS, ATOM, RDF) and I do not want to
>> have to write a complex parser to even do this 1/2 way dynamically.
>> Are there any other libraries out there that do this already? For
>> instance, I did notice that there is that library (name escapes me)
>> that lets you port your objects between Smalltalk versions by dumping
>> to XML files, so that is somewhat close to what I need to do.
>>
>> I am thinking since I already have a large number of Magritte
>> descriptions, I might as well expand upon that. This will also let me
>> do things like change a schema dynamically and provide easy access
>> memento objects to do things like create a preview of whatever format
>> I am trying to produce. Thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>





From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Dec  5 15:29:10 2007
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:29:10 +0000
Subject: Extracting a pier root
In-Reply-To: <34b4844b0712031435r1021871p9b90b4e8b5a225fc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6ac749c10702250504w69b523d3s270898822c370879@mail.gmail.com>	<66666f210702250515x125e09ffg9ba49c9748cb835b@mail.gmail.com>
	<34b4844b0712031435r1021871p9b90b4e8b5a225fc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4756B5B6.5070502@yahoo.co.uk>

Damien Pollet wrote:
> On 25/02/2007, Philippe Marschall <philippe.marschall at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> 2007/2/25, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou at gmail.com>:
>>     
>>> what is the best solution to extract a pier website from an image and
>>> put the extracted root into another image ?
>>>       
>> Assuming you don't use magma:
>> I'd say grab the kernel, file it out with ReferenceStream and file it
>> in the other image (you'll have to add it to the instances). Maybe
>> you'll have to nil out the mutex in the persistency instance, you'll
>> find out if filing out will give an error.
>>     
>
> I'm trying to do the same... ReferenceStream doesn't work because it
> encounters a BlockContext in the process (eg. some Magritte condition
> on the number of posts the blog should show).
>
> I'm trying to go the Magma way but it won't install' either via
> Universes or MC. Magma seaside says it needs WADispatcherControlPanel
> (I'm following the load order from http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/5902
> )
>
> Any suggestion ?
>
>   
Since WADispatcherControlPanel was never allowed into an official
release it was sidelined into the Jetsam package.

Keith


From damien.pollet at gmail.com  Wed Dec  5 17:05:13 2007
From: damien.pollet at gmail.com (Damien Pollet)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 17:05:13 +0100
Subject: Extracting a pier root
In-Reply-To: <8346D79E-8A62-4271-AAC7-1A23836458A4@gmail.com>
References: <22003.213.84.174.51.1196723110.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<34b4844b0712031542jd76703r8a3372427dfd826d@mail.gmail.com>
	<5BB61D64-1D46-44B2-8D75-4406317CD08A@iam.unibe.ch>
	<AAD6654B-B372-4F78-995A-16B931C2EF3D@iam.unibe.ch>
	<7C117142-2096-4E09-929A-0D4919F91655@gmail.com>
	<34b4844b0712040453s2b7f38f5vfcb40baec5113c1d@mail.gmail.com>
	<8346D79E-8A62-4271-AAC7-1A23836458A4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <34b4844b0712050805i667297dfg40be812920c3b274@mail.gmail.com>

On 04/12/2007, M. Blanc <manuel.blanc at gmail.com> wrote:
> Why don't you try your add-ons one by one?

Well that just worked, I don't think I changed anything? *scratches bald spot*

-- 
Damien Pollet
type less, do more [ | ] http://typo.cdlm.fasmz.org


From jason.johnson.081 at gmail.com  Wed Dec  5 19:39:32 2007
From: jason.johnson.081 at gmail.com (Jason Johnson)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:39:32 +0100
Subject: Semantic Web using Magritte
In-Reply-To: <20071205083346.5tuwup568s04888k@74.53.12.222>
References: <20071205080707.hvj1j8z7kw8og4oc@74.53.12.222>
	<66666f210712050623t4fc15f43qe7ab420c2e07d674@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071205083346.5tuwup568s04888k@74.53.12.222>
Message-ID: <aa22f0200712051039i4f765dccrb44fd946495a7093@mail.gmail.com>

Are your descriptions going to still be relevant for PDF in the same
way they are for a web page?  Magritte descriptions usually provide a
GUI for entering or editing them, no?

If the descriptions do fit (or if they don't you could make new ones)
then I think the thing to do would be to add a renderer.  Right now
there is one for Seaside and one for Morphic.  So you would need one
for each format you need to output to.  Perhaps there is already a
package that does something like Seaside's canvas for XML (maybe XANO
or whatever it's called?).


On Dec 5, 2007 3:33 PM,  <smalltalk at fixinsbar.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the input, I had definitely considered that. I was even
> looking at XSLT but I really like keeping everything in Smalltalk. I
> do indeed need to go many directions since there are many entry points
> and services with this application. I also have explored creating new
> canvases and doing some things with Readers/Writers like in Pier.
>
> I would do exactly what your describing, but I still am left with the
> problem of generating good output from my objects. So for example,
> sticking with music, say we have an Album object. I have all kinds of
> stuff already for Magritte in there for this object. Now I want to do
> something like in my seaside control provide an RDF button that when
> clicked, generates the RDF output. I would need to traverse the entire
> object/description graph and output the RDF with the album name,
> title, etc. and the track listing, and then artist info, etc. It
> definitely would suck without the metadata to identify which RDF URI
> corresponds with each object in the graph.
>
> Essentially, I am thinking of creating a simpler
> serializer/deserializer driven by Magritte descriptions similar to
> what I've done before in .NET and Java. I am just not sure if that is
> very Smalltalk like as I like to always think there is a better way
> than resorting to what I have done in those languages :)
>
> For instance, there is a JSON serializer in .NET where I can say
> Album.ToJSON(), or the XML serializer Album.ToXML(). It so happens
> that depending on the serializer/deserializer, it will read attributes
> I put on my class like [XmlIgnore]. That stuff is really primitive I
> think compared to what I can do in Magritte.
>
> I guess I am trying to prevent a future meltdown because as this
> application is developed, I am going to have to start going back and
> forth with lots of web services to communicate with Java and Flash in
> particular. I want to set a good example on the Smalltalk side by
> generating everything automagically.
>
>
> Quoting Philippe Marschall <philippe.marschall at gmail.com>:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > For audioscrobbler I did the opposite, from given XML to Magritte:
> > http://source.lukas-renggli.ch/audioscrobbler.html
> > The audioscrobbler xml is quite gay and I was surprised when I got it
> > working. It is also used for feed parsing of the Seaside homepage.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Philippe
> >
> > 2007/12/5, smalltalk at fixinsbar.com <smalltalk at fixinsbar.com>:
> >> I was wondering if anyone tried to do any kind of XML mapping using
> >> Magritte. I have the requirement to generate RDF from my business
> >> objects, so I was thinking of ways to simplify this. My idea was to
> >> add something in the Magritte descriptions for each object that
> >> pointed to the appropriate URI and schema.
> >>
> >> This may be more trouble than its worth. I suppose anyone who has done
> >> anything with generating XML from Magritte could maybe provide some
> >> insight on any hurdles they faced, design ideas, etc.
> >>
> >> I also am looking at Magritte for simplifying XML serialization in
> >> general. My problem overall is that I have to generate all these
> >> formats (XML for web service, RSS, ATOM, RDF) and I do not want to
> >> have to write a complex parser to even do this 1/2 way dynamically.
> >> Are there any other libraries out there that do this already? For
> >> instance, I did notice that there is that library (name escapes me)
> >> that lets you port your objects between Smalltalk versions by dumping
> >> to XML files, so that is somewhat close to what I need to do.
> >>
> >> I am thinking since I already have a large number of Magritte
> >> descriptions, I might as well expand upon that. This will also let me
> >> do things like change a schema dynamically and provide easy access
> >> memento objects to do things like create a preview of whatever format
> >> I am trying to produce. Thoughts?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>

From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Wed Dec  5 20:11:33 2007
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:11:33 +0100
Subject: Semantic Web using Magritte
In-Reply-To: <aa22f0200712051039i4f765dccrb44fd946495a7093@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071205080707.hvj1j8z7kw8og4oc@74.53.12.222>
	<66666f210712050623t4fc15f43qe7ab420c2e07d674@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071205083346.5tuwup568s04888k@74.53.12.222>
	<aa22f0200712051039i4f765dccrb44fd946495a7093@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <559B506A-DD3A-47E5-A795-2619AAB172E6@iam.unibe.ch>

> Are your descriptions going to still be relevant for PDF in the same
> way they are for a web page?  Magritte descriptions usually provide a
> GUI for entering or editing them, no?

This is one part, but not all ...

- Introspection
- Reflection
- Documentation
- Viewer building
- Editor building
- Report building
- Data validation
- Query processing
- String parsing
- Object persistency
- Object indexing
- Object setup
- Object verification
- Object adaption
- Object customization

The (incomplete) list is from my Magritte tutorial slides.

Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch


From matthias.berth at googlemail.com  Wed Dec  5 22:42:01 2007
From: matthias.berth at googlemail.com (Matthias Berth)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 22:42:01 +0100
Subject: Semantic Web using Magritte
In-Reply-To: <20071205083346.5tuwup568s04888k@74.53.12.222>
References: <20071205080707.hvj1j8z7kw8og4oc@74.53.12.222>
	<66666f210712050623t4fc15f43qe7ab420c2e07d674@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071205083346.5tuwup568s04888k@74.53.12.222>
Message-ID: <9aa6ae270712051342w2b15e08fh44751ab330ab7478@mail.gmail.com>

Just by analogy: did you have a look at the way PierBlog creates the
RSS feed for the blog? Seems to be a similar problem...

-- Matthias

On Dec 5, 2007 3:33 PM,  <smalltalk at fixinsbar.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the input, I had definitely considered that. I was even
> looking at XSLT but I really like keeping everything in Smalltalk. I
> do indeed need to go many directions since there are many entry points
> and services with this application. I also have explored creating new
> canvases and doing some things with Readers/Writers like in Pier.
>
> I would do exactly what your describing, but I still am left with the
> problem of generating good output from my objects. So for example,
> sticking with music, say we have an Album object. I have all kinds of
> stuff already for Magritte in there for this object. Now I want to do
> something like in my seaside control provide an RDF button that when
> clicked, generates the RDF output. I would need to traverse the entire
> object/description graph and output the RDF with the album name,
> title, etc. and the track listing, and then artist info, etc. It
> definitely would suck without the metadata to identify which RDF URI
> corresponds with each object in the graph.
>
> Essentially, I am thinking of creating a simpler
> serializer/deserializer driven by Magritte descriptions similar to
> what I've done before in .NET and Java. I am just not sure if that is
> very Smalltalk like as I like to always think there is a better way
> than resorting to what I have done in those languages :)
>
> For instance, there is a JSON serializer in .NET where I can say
> Album.ToJSON(), or the XML serializer Album.ToXML(). It so happens
> that depending on the serializer/deserializer, it will read attributes
> I put on my class like [XmlIgnore]. That stuff is really primitive I
> think compared to what I can do in Magritte.
>
> I guess I am trying to prevent a future meltdown because as this
> application is developed, I am going to have to start going back and
> forth with lots of web services to communicate with Java and Flash in
> particular. I want to set a good example on the Smalltalk side by
> generating everything automagically.
>
>
> Quoting Philippe Marschall <philippe.marschall at gmail.com>:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > For audioscrobbler I did the opposite, from given XML to Magritte:
> > http://source.lukas-renggli.ch/audioscrobbler.html
> > The audioscrobbler xml is quite gay and I was surprised when I got it
> > working. It is also used for feed parsing of the Seaside homepage.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Philippe
> >
> > 2007/12/5, smalltalk at fixinsbar.com <smalltalk at fixinsbar.com>:
> >> I was wondering if anyone tried to do any kind of XML mapping using
> >> Magritte. I have the requirement to generate RDF from my business
> >> objects, so I was thinking of ways to simplify this. My idea was to
> >> add something in the Magritte descriptions for each object that
> >> pointed to the appropriate URI and schema.
> >>
> >> This may be more trouble than its worth. I suppose anyone who has done
> >> anything with generating XML from Magritte could maybe provide some
> >> insight on any hurdles they faced, design ideas, etc.
> >>
> >> I also am looking at Magritte for simplifying XML serialization in
> >> general. My problem overall is that I have to generate all these
> >> formats (XML for web service, RSS, ATOM, RDF) and I do not want to
> >> have to write a complex parser to even do this 1/2 way dynamically.
> >> Are there any other libraries out there that do this already? For
> >> instance, I did notice that there is that library (name escapes me)
> >> that lets you port your objects between Smalltalk versions by dumping
> >> to XML files, so that is somewhat close to what I need to do.
> >>
> >> I am thinking since I already have a large number of Magritte
> >> descriptions, I might as well expand upon that. This will also let me
> >> do things like change a schema dynamically and provide easy access
> >> memento objects to do things like create a preview of whatever format
> >> I am trying to produce. Thoughts?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>

From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Wed Dec  5 22:46:02 2007
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 22:46:02 +0100
Subject: Semantic Web using Magritte
In-Reply-To: <9aa6ae270712051342w2b15e08fh44751ab330ab7478@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071205080707.hvj1j8z7kw8og4oc@74.53.12.222>
	<66666f210712050623t4fc15f43qe7ab420c2e07d674@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071205083346.5tuwup568s04888k@74.53.12.222>
	<9aa6ae270712051342w2b15e08fh44751ab330ab7478@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E9B02D2D-1CC2-4A46-A666-BF3B76477D8F@iam.unibe.ch>

> Just by analogy: did you have a look at the way PierBlog creates the
> RSS feed for the blog? Seems to be a similar problem...

It doesn't really use the descriptions to generate the blog items, it  
could (or better it should) though.

Lukas

>
>
> -- Matthias
>
> On Dec 5, 2007 3:33 PM,  <smalltalk at fixinsbar.com> wrote:
>> Thanks for the input, I had definitely considered that. I was even
>> looking at XSLT but I really like keeping everything in Smalltalk. I
>> do indeed need to go many directions since there are many entry  
>> points
>> and services with this application. I also have explored creating new
>> canvases and doing some things with Readers/Writers like in Pier.
>>
>> I would do exactly what your describing, but I still am left with the
>> problem of generating good output from my objects. So for example,
>> sticking with music, say we have an Album object. I have all kinds of
>> stuff already for Magritte in there for this object. Now I want to do
>> something like in my seaside control provide an RDF button that when
>> clicked, generates the RDF output. I would need to traverse the  
>> entire
>> object/description graph and output the RDF with the album name,
>> title, etc. and the track listing, and then artist info, etc. It
>> definitely would suck without the metadata to identify which RDF URI
>> corresponds with each object in the graph.
>>
>> Essentially, I am thinking of creating a simpler
>> serializer/deserializer driven by Magritte descriptions similar to
>> what I've done before in .NET and Java. I am just not sure if that is
>> very Smalltalk like as I like to always think there is a better way
>> than resorting to what I have done in those languages :)
>>
>> For instance, there is a JSON serializer in .NET where I can say
>> Album.ToJSON(), or the XML serializer Album.ToXML(). It so happens
>> that depending on the serializer/deserializer, it will read  
>> attributes
>> I put on my class like [XmlIgnore]. That stuff is really primitive I
>> think compared to what I can do in Magritte.
>>
>> I guess I am trying to prevent a future meltdown because as this
>> application is developed, I am going to have to start going back and
>> forth with lots of web services to communicate with Java and Flash in
>> particular. I want to set a good example on the Smalltalk side by
>> generating everything automagically.
>>
>>
>> Quoting Philippe Marschall <philippe.marschall at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> For audioscrobbler I did the opposite, from given XML to Magritte:
>>> http://source.lukas-renggli.ch/audioscrobbler.html
>>> The audioscrobbler xml is quite gay and I was surprised when I got  
>>> it
>>> working. It is also used for feed parsing of the Seaside homepage.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Philippe
>>>
>>> 2007/12/5, smalltalk at fixinsbar.com <smalltalk at fixinsbar.com>:
>>>> I was wondering if anyone tried to do any kind of XML mapping using
>>>> Magritte. I have the requirement to generate RDF from my business
>>>> objects, so I was thinking of ways to simplify this. My idea was to
>>>> add something in the Magritte descriptions for each object that
>>>> pointed to the appropriate URI and schema.
>>>>
>>>> This may be more trouble than its worth. I suppose anyone who has  
>>>> done
>>>> anything with generating XML from Magritte could maybe provide some
>>>> insight on any hurdles they faced, design ideas, etc.
>>>>
>>>> I also am looking at Magritte for simplifying XML serialization in
>>>> general. My problem overall is that I have to generate all these
>>>> formats (XML for web service, RSS, ATOM, RDF) and I do not want to
>>>> have to write a complex parser to even do this 1/2 way dynamically.
>>>> Are there any other libraries out there that do this already? For
>>>> instance, I did notice that there is that library (name escapes me)
>>>> that lets you port your objects between Smalltalk versions by  
>>>> dumping
>>>> to XML files, so that is somewhat close to what I need to do.
>>>>
>>>> I am thinking since I already have a large number of Magritte
>>>> descriptions, I might as well expand upon that. This will also  
>>>> let me
>>>> do things like change a schema dynamically and provide easy access
>>>> memento objects to do things like create a preview of whatever  
>>>> format
>>>> I am trying to produce. Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch


From smalltalk at fixinsbar.com  Wed Dec  5 22:55:08 2007
From: smalltalk at fixinsbar.com (smalltalk@fixinsbar.com)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:55:08 -0600
Subject: Semantic Web using Magritte
In-Reply-To: <E9B02D2D-1CC2-4A46-A666-BF3B76477D8F@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <20071205080707.hvj1j8z7kw8og4oc@74.53.12.222>
	<66666f210712050623t4fc15f43qe7ab420c2e07d674@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071205083346.5tuwup568s04888k@74.53.12.222>
	<9aa6ae270712051342w2b15e08fh44751ab330ab7478@mail.gmail.com>
	<E9B02D2D-1CC2-4A46-A666-BF3B76477D8F@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <20071205155508.gayqcq9nf40c8s44@74.53.12.222>

Yes, I looked at that too which is one of the reasons I am asking for  
best practices/guidance/feasibility. I was wondering if there was some  
reason why Pier didn't use the descriptions like that as Lukas  
mentioned.

The thing about RDF is that it involves creating ontologies.  
Everything is derived from concepts and such. Depending on the other  
things you use like n-tuples, you end up with "is a" and "has a"  
relationships. I thought the notion of 1-many, 1-1, etc. in Magritte  
might be an interesting way to map to this. I have so many domain  
objects, I really need my ontologies to be consistent and not go all  
over the place pointing at random schemas because another developer  
didn't know I already defined "what is an album" in RDF.

Anyway, I've got a lot of other things to bang out first, so for now  
the best I'm going to produce is some proofs of concept. At some  
point, if anything I do is worth sharing, I'll put it up on  
squeaksource or somewhere else.

Quoting Lukas Renggli <renggli at iam.unibe.ch>:

>> Just by analogy: did you have a look at the way PierBlog creates the
>> RSS feed for the blog? Seems to be a similar problem...
>
> It doesn't really use the descriptions to generate the blog items, it
> could (or better it should) though.
>
> Lukas
>
>>
>>
>> -- Matthias
>>
>> On Dec 5, 2007 3:33 PM,  <smalltalk at fixinsbar.com> wrote:
>>> Thanks for the input, I had definitely considered that. I was even
>>> looking at XSLT but I really like keeping everything in Smalltalk. I
>>> do indeed need to go many directions since there are many entry
>>> points
>>> and services with this application. I also have explored creating new
>>> canvases and doing some things with Readers/Writers like in Pier.
>>>
>>> I would do exactly what your describing, but I still am left with the
>>> problem of generating good output from my objects. So for example,
>>> sticking with music, say we have an Album object. I have all kinds of
>>> stuff already for Magritte in there for this object. Now I want to do
>>> something like in my seaside control provide an RDF button that when
>>> clicked, generates the RDF output. I would need to traverse the
>>> entire
>>> object/description graph and output the RDF with the album name,
>>> title, etc. and the track listing, and then artist info, etc. It
>>> definitely would suck without the metadata to identify which RDF URI
>>> corresponds with each object in the graph.
>>>
>>> Essentially, I am thinking of creating a simpler
>>> serializer/deserializer driven by Magritte descriptions similar to
>>> what I've done before in .NET and Java. I am just not sure if that is
>>> very Smalltalk like as I like to always think there is a better way
>>> than resorting to what I have done in those languages :)
>>>
>>> For instance, there is a JSON serializer in .NET where I can say
>>> Album.ToJSON(), or the XML serializer Album.ToXML(). It so happens
>>> that depending on the serializer/deserializer, it will read
>>> attributes
>>> I put on my class like [XmlIgnore]. That stuff is really primitive I
>>> think compared to what I can do in Magritte.
>>>
>>> I guess I am trying to prevent a future meltdown because as this
>>> application is developed, I am going to have to start going back and
>>> forth with lots of web services to communicate with Java and Flash in
>>> particular. I want to set a good example on the Smalltalk side by
>>> generating everything automagically.
>>>
>>>
>>> Quoting Philippe Marschall <philippe.marschall at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> For audioscrobbler I did the opposite, from given XML to Magritte:
>>>> http://source.lukas-renggli.ch/audioscrobbler.html
>>>> The audioscrobbler xml is quite gay and I was surprised when I got
>>>> it
>>>> working. It is also used for feed parsing of the Seaside homepage.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Philippe
>>>>
>>>> 2007/12/5, smalltalk at fixinsbar.com <smalltalk at fixinsbar.com>:
>>>>> I was wondering if anyone tried to do any kind of XML mapping using
>>>>> Magritte. I have the requirement to generate RDF from my business
>>>>> objects, so I was thinking of ways to simplify this. My idea was to
>>>>> add something in the Magritte descriptions for each object that
>>>>> pointed to the appropriate URI and schema.
>>>>>
>>>>> This may be more trouble than its worth. I suppose anyone who has
>>>>> done
>>>>> anything with generating XML from Magritte could maybe provide some
>>>>> insight on any hurdles they faced, design ideas, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also am looking at Magritte for simplifying XML serialization in
>>>>> general. My problem overall is that I have to generate all these
>>>>> formats (XML for web service, RSS, ATOM, RDF) and I do not want to
>>>>> have to write a complex parser to even do this 1/2 way dynamically.
>>>>> Are there any other libraries out there that do this already? For
>>>>> instance, I did notice that there is that library (name escapes me)
>>>>> that lets you port your objects between Smalltalk versions by
>>>>> dumping
>>>>> to XML files, so that is somewhat close to what I need to do.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am thinking since I already have a large number of Magritte
>>>>> descriptions, I might as well expand upon that. This will also
>>>>> let me
>>>>> do things like change a schema dynamically and provide easy access
>>>>> memento objects to do things like create a preview of whatever
>>>>> format
>>>>> I am trying to produce. Thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>
> --
> Lukas Renggli
> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>





From damien.pollet at gmail.com  Wed Dec  5 23:15:01 2007
From: damien.pollet at gmail.com (Damien Pollet)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 23:15:01 +0100
Subject: Extracting a pier root
In-Reply-To: <34b4844b0712050805i667297dfg40be812920c3b274@mail.gmail.com>
References: <22003.213.84.174.51.1196723110.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<34b4844b0712031542jd76703r8a3372427dfd826d@mail.gmail.com>
	<5BB61D64-1D46-44B2-8D75-4406317CD08A@iam.unibe.ch>
	<AAD6654B-B372-4F78-995A-16B931C2EF3D@iam.unibe.ch>
	<7C117142-2096-4E09-929A-0D4919F91655@gmail.com>
	<34b4844b0712040453s2b7f38f5vfcb40baec5113c1d@mail.gmail.com>
	<8346D79E-8A62-4271-AAC7-1A23836458A4@gmail.com>
	<34b4844b0712050805i667297dfg40be812920c3b274@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <34b4844b0712051415i3b0b66c9s4dd4516a3ffb5302@mail.gmail.com>

On 05/12/2007, Damien Pollet <damien.pollet at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 04/12/2007, M. Blanc <manuel.blanc at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Why don't you try your add-ons one by one?
>
> Well that just worked, I don't think I changed anything? *scratches bald spot*

It seems everything works fine, provided the correct code is there in
the destination image. But the VM dies when I do PUSecurity-related
stuff. Eg:
- try to login, the command displays its user/password, but clicking
"Login" kills the VM
- strip all security decorations, remove properties from the kernel,
then try to re-add them from the web => VM dies upon validation of the
"change owner" form.

I tried breakpointing doValidate and doAnswer, the VM dies before that. Ideas ?

-- 
Damien Pollet
type less, do more [ | ] http://typo.cdlm.fasmz.org


From smalltalk at fixinsbar.com  Thu Dec  6 14:33:50 2007
From: smalltalk at fixinsbar.com (smalltalk@fixinsbar.com)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 07:33:50 -0600
Subject: Semantic Web using Magritte
In-Reply-To: <aa22f0200712051039i4f765dccrb44fd946495a7093@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071205080707.hvj1j8z7kw8og4oc@74.53.12.222>
	<66666f210712050623t4fc15f43qe7ab420c2e07d674@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071205083346.5tuwup568s04888k@74.53.12.222>
	<aa22f0200712051039i4f765dccrb44fd946495a7093@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071206073350.h2bfvbyx8g4g0wk4@74.53.12.222>

Quoting Jason Johnson <jason.johnson.081 at gmail.com>:

> Are your descriptions going to still be relevant for PDF in the same
> way they are for a web page?  Magritte descriptions usually provide a
> GUI for entering or editing them, no?

Not sure if we're talking about the same things totally. My  
descriptions have little if anything to do with the GUI. I am looking  
at adding automagic form generation in a few places, but mainly the  
forms in my application are hand-crafted right now. We do use Magritte  
in conjunction with our forms (ex: memento validation), just not to  
generate the actual form UI.


> If the descriptions do fit (or if they don't you could make new ones)
> then I think the thing to do would be to add a renderer.  Right now
> there is one for Seaside and one for Morphic.  So you would need one
> for each format you need to output to.  Perhaps there is already a
> package that does something like Seaside's canvas for XML (maybe XANO
> or whatever it's called?).
>

I have explored this strategy before for output. The thing is I really  
need to produce the RDF/XML/FOAF/RSS/ATOM or whatever else is required  
given a particular use case on demand relevant to the context. Many  
situations, Seaside won't play much of a part if any, however Magritte  
and my back-end (eventually Gemstone) will. There are many channels  
already to the application, so I want to define how to provide data in  
each format once regardless of the channel.



From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Thu Dec  6 14:53:41 2007
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 14:53:41 +0100
Subject: Semantic Web using Magritte
In-Reply-To: <20071206073350.h2bfvbyx8g4g0wk4@74.53.12.222>
References: <20071205080707.hvj1j8z7kw8og4oc@74.53.12.222>
	<66666f210712050623t4fc15f43qe7ab420c2e07d674@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071205083346.5tuwup568s04888k@74.53.12.222>
	<aa22f0200712051039i4f765dccrb44fd946495a7093@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071206073350.h2bfvbyx8g4g0wk4@74.53.12.222>
Message-ID: <073D6388-C552-4A6B-B69A-1E57115206B1@iam.unibe.ch>

>> Are your descriptions going to still be relevant for PDF in the same
>> way they are for a web page?  Magritte descriptions usually provide a
>> GUI for entering or editing them, no?
>
> Not sure if we're talking about the same things totally. My
> descriptions have little if anything to do with the GUI. I am looking
> at adding automagic form generation in a few places, but mainly the
> forms in my application are hand-crafted right now. We do use Magritte
> in conjunction with our forms (ex: memento validation), just not to
> generate the actual form UI.

It is easy to generate dumps of described objects to specific output  
formats. It is almost too simple to show a text exporter here:

   aModel description do: [ :desc |
     aStream
       nextPutAll: (desc label);
       nextPutAll: ?: ?;
       nextPutAll: (desc toString: (desc accessor readFrom: aModel));
cr ]

For a description of this example see page 6 in http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/Archive/Papers/Reng07aMagritte.pdf 
.

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Thu Dec  6 17:28:40 2007
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 17:28:40 +0100
Subject: MAValidationError
In-Reply-To: <473B3C43.1010105@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <473B3C43.1010105@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <2090F57C-83B4-41C6-B28E-83632431240C@iam.unibe.ch>

> I came accross a situation in which an MAValidationError was raised
> having a tag = nil.
> Exception returns messageText from #tag in this case which being a
> string does not respond to #label.
>
> MAValidationError-#label
>    ^ self tag label ifNil: [ self tag asString ]

Keith, sorry for coming back to this only now.

I don't see where #label is sent to a MAValidationError instance? The  
current implementation uses MAValidationError>>#printOn: and there are  
some checks built in already. I know this was not always the case. Is  
your patch still useful in the latest version?

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch


From jason.johnson.081 at gmail.com  Thu Dec  6 18:48:32 2007
From: jason.johnson.081 at gmail.com (Jason Johnson)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 18:48:32 +0100
Subject: Semantic Web using Magritte
In-Reply-To: <20071206073350.h2bfvbyx8g4g0wk4@74.53.12.222>
References: <20071205080707.hvj1j8z7kw8og4oc@74.53.12.222>
	<66666f210712050623t4fc15f43qe7ab420c2e07d674@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071205083346.5tuwup568s04888k@74.53.12.222>
	<aa22f0200712051039i4f765dccrb44fd946495a7093@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071206073350.h2bfvbyx8g4g0wk4@74.53.12.222>
Message-ID: <aa22f0200712060948j20ceb746g3459f272a51dd260@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 6, 2007 2:33 PM,  <smalltalk at fixinsbar.com> wrote:
>
> I have explored this strategy before for output. The thing is I really
> need to produce the RDF/XML/FOAF/RSS/ATOM or whatever else is required
> given a particular use case on demand relevant to the context. Many
> situations, Seaside won't play much of a part if any, however Magritte
> and my back-end (eventually Gemstone) will. There are many channels
> already to the application, so I want to define how to provide data in
> each format once regardless of the channel.

I don't think I expressed myself clearly.  Magritte is (as I
understand it) a way to provide extra meta "descriptions" of how your
objects might be presented.  Other components can take these
components and turn them into some representation.  For example, the
Seaside Magritte renderer takes these descriptions and makes HTML.

You could create e.g. a PDF renderer that reads these descriptions and
generates a PDF item from them.  I know that would be a lot of work,
but once it's done one time we all have it.

From smalltalk at fixinsbar.com  Thu Dec  6 20:22:37 2007
From: smalltalk at fixinsbar.com (smalltalk@fixinsbar.com)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 13:22:37 -0600
Subject: Semantic Web using Magritte
In-Reply-To: <073D6388-C552-4A6B-B69A-1E57115206B1@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <20071205080707.hvj1j8z7kw8og4oc@74.53.12.222>
	<66666f210712050623t4fc15f43qe7ab420c2e07d674@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071205083346.5tuwup568s04888k@74.53.12.222>
	<aa22f0200712051039i4f765dccrb44fd946495a7093@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071206073350.h2bfvbyx8g4g0wk4@74.53.12.222>
	<073D6388-C552-4A6B-B69A-1E57115206B1@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <20071206132237.cilwx76m80ks4cgc@74.53.12.222>

Thanks Lukas, that is what I am doing now for our exports to text  
files as well as some custom XML to send to specific web services.  
Basically, we just wrote a writer that visits the object hierarchy in  
the way we want and calls the appropriate visit methods. This is  
similar to some things I have seen in Pier.

I am less worried about that part as I am the design of my actual  
descriptions and how easy it will be to read/write into these formats  
without writing too much manual stuff. In other words, I don't want to  
write separate ways of handling different kinds of objects, I want  
descriptions that fit all the object types I have.

As far as I have tested, this is relatively simple. It's just in my  
experience going down these roads, you write about 90% then comes an  
uh-oh moment if you are not careful. I am most interested in how  
others have done similar things as well as affirmation of my ideas.

In any case, glad to hear that it is certainly possible/practical.



Quoting Lukas Renggli <renggli at iam.unibe.ch>:

>>> Are your descriptions going to still be relevant for PDF in the same
>>> way they are for a web page?  Magritte descriptions usually provide a
>>> GUI for entering or editing them, no?
>>
>> Not sure if we're talking about the same things totally. My
>> descriptions have little if anything to do with the GUI. I am looking
>> at adding automagic form generation in a few places, but mainly the
>> forms in my application are hand-crafted right now. We do use Magritte
>> in conjunction with our forms (ex: memento validation), just not to
>> generate the actual form UI.
>
> It is easy to generate dumps of described objects to specific output
> formats. It is almost too simple to show a text exporter here:
>
>    aModel description do: [ :desc |
>      aStream
>        nextPutAll: (desc label);
>        nextPutAll: ?: ?;
>        nextPutAll: (desc toString: (desc accessor readFrom: aModel));
> cr ]
>
> For a description of this example see page 6 in   
> http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/Archive/Papers/Reng07aMagritte.pdf
> .
>
> Cheers,
> Lukas
>
> --
> Lukas Renggli
> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>





From smalltalk at fixinsbar.com  Thu Dec  6 20:47:11 2007
From: smalltalk at fixinsbar.com (smalltalk@fixinsbar.com)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 13:47:11 -0600
Subject: Semantic Web using Magritte
In-Reply-To: <aa22f0200712060948j20ceb746g3459f272a51dd260@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071205080707.hvj1j8z7kw8og4oc@74.53.12.222>
	<66666f210712050623t4fc15f43qe7ab420c2e07d674@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071205083346.5tuwup568s04888k@74.53.12.222>
	<aa22f0200712051039i4f765dccrb44fd946495a7093@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071206073350.h2bfvbyx8g4g0wk4@74.53.12.222>
	<aa22f0200712060948j20ceb746g3459f272a51dd260@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071206134711.xecmswowjk484g00@74.53.12.222>

Agreed, you are definitely correct.

I think depending on implementation it would be specific to what you  
are doing. For instance if we're visiting different domain objects and  
their descriptions to create the PDF, we might have certain kinds of  
objects to represent the output we want.

Additionally, you are mentioning one use for Magritte. Lukas mentioned  
some others in one of his posts. Magritte to me is simply a good  
implementation of meta-programming constructs I have used in other  
languages such as .NET, Java, Lisp, Ruby, C++, etc.  For instance,  
.NET has reflection and attributes which allows for some similar  
constructs as Magritte, but definitely not as flexible. Previously, I  
used .NET attributes to create a simple Object to RDF converter.  
Obviously though I'd rather work with Smalltalk :)

Output formats is just one goal for me, another one is searching my  
object graph, for example as done in Pier. Ramon's implementation of  
Magritte to generate Glorp descriptions is another.

I'd be happy to share anything that I produce regarding conversions. I  
brought some of this up because after exploring what I could find in  
Squeak for RDF in particular, it was frustrating. I did not want have  
to do things like create anything cased out or with specialized extra  
objects. I wanted to just use my existing objects and extend them in a  
way that didn't interfere with what I was already doing. Since my  
Magritte descriptions are already there and exist on the meta level,  
it's a good choice I think.

Quoting Jason Johnson <jason.johnson.081 at gmail.com>:

> I don't think I expressed myself clearly.  Magritte is (as I
> understand it) a way to provide extra meta "descriptions" of how your
> objects might be presented.  Other components can take these
> components and turn them into some representation.  For example, the
> Seaside Magritte renderer takes these descriptions and makes HTML.
>
> You could create e.g. a PDF renderer that reads these descriptions and
> generates a PDF item from them.  I know that would be a lot of work,
> but once it's done one time we all have it.
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>





From firerox at centrum.cz  Tue Dec 11 16:21:56 2007
From: firerox at centrum.cz (firerox@centrum.cz)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:21:56 +0100
Subject: problem witch Pier
Message-ID: <200712111621.27221@centrum.cz>

Hi all,

I've got a problem witch Pier.
I created an application with Seaside. And I want to add
the application in Pier.

I wrote in Edit mode +application+, than I clicked on it
and select type: Component. Exactly like on this video: http://www.lukas-renggli.ch/smalltalk/pier/videos/sushi.mov
But in combobox Component class
i don't see my seaside application. What is the way to put my application in this list and then
in Pier?
Thank You very much!!

Best regards.

Marek Fiala


From philippe.marschall at gmail.com  Tue Dec 11 17:00:09 2007
From: philippe.marschall at gmail.com (Philippe Marschall)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:00:09 +0100
Subject: problem witch Pier
In-Reply-To: <200712111621.27221@centrum.cz>
References: <200712111621.27221@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <66666f210712110800l6cb74fb5n34b65f040d3f770d@mail.gmail.com>

2007/12/11, firerox at centrum.cz <firerox at centrum.cz>:
> Hi all,
>
> I've got a problem witch Pier.
> I created an application with Seaside. And I want to add
> the application in Pier.
>
> I wrote in Edit mode +application+, than I clicked on it
> and select type: Component. Exactly like on this video: http://www.lukas-renggli.ch/smalltalk/pier/videos/sushi.mov
> But in combobox Component class
> i don't see my seaside application. What is the way to put my application in this list and then
> in Pier?

On the class side implement
canBeRoot
    ^ true

Cheers
Philippe

> Thank You very much!!
>
> Best regards.
>
> Marek Fiala
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>

From firerox at centrum.cz  Wed Dec 12 19:25:09 2007
From: firerox at centrum.cz (firerox@centrum.cz)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:25:09 +0100
Subject: problem witch Pier
In-Reply-To: <66666f210712110800l6cb74fb5n34b65f040d3f770d@mail.gmail.com>
References: 200712111621.27221@centrum.cz> <200712111621.27221@centrum.cz>
	<66666f210712110800l6cb74fb5n34b65f040d3f770d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200712121925.27144@centrum.cz>

>On the class side implement
>canBeRoot
>    ^ true

I have been implemented method canBeRoot.
I knew it, but it doesn't resolve my problem :(
Have you any hint?

Thank you very much!

Marek Fiala
______________________________________________________________
> Od: philippe.marschall at gmail.com
> Komu: &quot;Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...&quot; <smallwiki at iam.unibe.ch>
> Datum: 11.12.2007 17:01
> P?edm?t: Re: problem witch Pier
>
>2007/12/11, firerox at centrum.cz <firerox at centrum.cz>:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've got a problem witch Pier.
>> I created an application with Seaside. And I want to add
>> the application in Pier.
>>
>> I wrote in Edit mode +application+, than I clicked on it
>> and select type: Component. Exactly like on this video: http://www.lukas-renggli.ch/smalltalk/pier/videos/sushi.mov
>> But in combobox Component class
>> i don't see my seaside application. What is the way to put my application in this list and then
>> in Pier?
>
>On the class side implement
>canBeRoot
>    ^ true
>
>Cheers
>Philippe
>
>> Thank You very much!!
>>
>> Best regards.
>>
>> Marek Fiala
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
>https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>


From philippe.marschall at gmail.com  Wed Dec 12 19:32:53 2007
From: philippe.marschall at gmail.com (Philippe Marschall)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:32:53 +0100
Subject: problem witch Pier
In-Reply-To: <200712121925.27144@centrum.cz>
References: <200712111621.27221@centrum.cz>
	<66666f210712110800l6cb74fb5n34b65f040d3f770d@mail.gmail.com>
	<200712121925.27144@centrum.cz>
Message-ID: <66666f210712121032t5496c693q79b9b3770503d659@mail.gmail.com>

2007/12/12, firerox at centrum.cz <firerox at centrum.cz>:
> >On the class side implement
> >canBeRoot
> >    ^ true
>
> I have been implemented method canBeRoot.
> I knew it, but it doesn't resolve my problem :(
> Have you any hint?

The code to select the components is:
componentClasses
	^ ((PRWidget allSubclasses reject: [ :each | each isAbstract ]) asArray
		sort: [ :a :b | a label < b label ];
		yourself) ,
	  ((WAComponent allSubclasses select: [ :each | each canBeRoot ]) asArray
		sort: [ :a :b | a label < b label ];
		yourself)

So canBeRoot should really be enough unless you inherit from PRWidget,
in this case to have to implement

isAbstract
	^ false

Cheers
Philippe

From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Dec 12 23:08:31 2007
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:08:31 +0000
Subject: Finally, Manage Users/Groups in seaside/config
Message-ID: <47605BDF.20107@yahoo.co.uk>

Name: Pier-PersistencyManager-kph.11
Author: kph
Time: 12 December 2007, 10:02:59 pm
UUID: 0129ad29-a8fe-11dc-abc2-000a95edb42a
Ancestors: Pier-PersistencyManager-kph.10

- Fixed the "Manage Users" and "Manage Groups"

Finally worked out how to call a PRWidget and make sure it is wrapped in
the current PRContext when NOT in a pier application. (i.e. the
seaside/config app)

I made a PRCurrentContextDecoration to wrap widgets in when you want to
use PRWidgets in a different content.

cheers

Keith


From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Dec 13 03:36:55 2007
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:36:55 +0000
Subject: PRImagePersistency logs people off?
Message-ID: <47609AC7.20003@yahoo.co.uk>

In PRImagePersistency

snapshot appears to be checking to see if it has been forked by the OS
and then in the image about to be saved it
is clearing all of the handlers.

But I cant see where this forking actually takes place so it appears to
me that all users get logged off every hour. Am I missing somthing?

Keith

====


From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Mon Dec 17 11:55:22 2007
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:55:22 +0100
Subject: PRImagePersistency logs people off?
In-Reply-To: <47609AC7.20003@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <47609AC7.20003@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <85668630-138E-44F1-B53A-0BE97507ECF1@iam.unibe.ch>

> In PRImagePersistency
>
> snapshot appears to be checking to see if it has been forked by the OS
> and then in the image about to be saved it
> is clearing all of the handlers.

> But I cant see where this forking actually takes place so it appears  
> to
> me that all users get logged off every hour. Am I missing somthing?

Yes, that's a bug. It should only clear the handlers in the forked  
image, not in the parent image.

Cheers,
Lukas


>
>
> B
>
> Keith
>
> ====
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch


From girba at iam.unibe.ch  Mon Dec 17 23:29:46 2007
From: girba at iam.unibe.ch (Tudor Girba)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 23:29:46 +0100
Subject: Moose website
References: <4766B8D3.8030601@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D0972CF-1A30-4DEF-AC00-E4BBC4CEE802@iam.unibe.ch>

Hi,

I have a problem in moose.unibe.ch with Pier. After a while the links  
lead to localhost instead of moose.unibe.ch.

How can this be fixed?

I have to say that we are using Apache 1.3, so there is no Apache  
forwarding.

Cheers,
Doru

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Toon Verwaest <toon.verwaest at gmail.com>
> Date: December 17, 2007 6:58:43 PM GMT+01:00
> To: Related to the development of Moose and other related tools <moose-dev at iam.unibe.ch 
> >
> Subject: [Moose-dev]  website
> Reply-To: Related to the development of Moose and other related  
> tools <moose-dev at iam.unibe.ch>
>
> Mmh... the website still seems to have that "bug" related to the  
> system
> below it. If I let the site open for a few hours without touching it;
> and then try to open a link; I get redirected to "localhost:...."which
> obviously fails. And for me this kind of browsing behavior is quite
> common; since I open websites in tabs and tempt to forget about  
> it :) I
> guess it has something to do with cookies expiring?
>
> cheers
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> Moose-dev at iam.unibe.ch
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.tudorgirba.com/blog

"Every successful trip needs a suitable vehicle."




From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Mon Dec 17 23:40:11 2007
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 23:40:11 +0100
Subject: Moose website
In-Reply-To: <4D0972CF-1A30-4DEF-AC00-E4BBC4CEE802@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <4766B8D3.8030601@gmail.com>
	<4D0972CF-1A30-4DEF-AC00-E4BBC4CEE802@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <CC8B41A2-B62E-4327-9DE2-503C4206E67B@iam.unibe.ch>

> How can this be fixed?

Add the following rewrite rule as the first one to the Apache config:

   RewriteRule ^/seaside/pier(.*)$ http://www.lukas-renggli.ch$1  
[redirect,last]

Otherwise you can also write a custom redirect handler. There are some  
inconsistencies in Seaside here.

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch


From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Dec 23 23:56:10 2007
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 22:56:10 +0000
Subject: Block Equality?
Message-ID: <476EE78A.5090606@yahoo.co.uk>

I remember reading somewhere about a fix for testing block equality, but
cant remember where and I vaguely remember thinking it was
mentioned on this list.

can anyone enlighten me?

Keith

From mathk.sue at gmail.com  Mon Dec 24 00:10:46 2007
From: mathk.sue at gmail.com (Mathieu Suen)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 00:10:46 +0100
Subject: Block Equality?
In-Reply-To: <476EE78A.5090606@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <476EE78A.5090606@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <DAEC0FF4-FCF2-4975-B1AF-F96C1E42661D@gmail.com>

Yeap
http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6599

On Dec 23, 2007, at 11:56 PM, Keith Hodges wrote:

> I remember reading somewhere about a fix for testing block equality,  
> but
> cant remember where and I vaguely remember thinking it was
> mentioned on this list.
>
> can anyone enlighten me?
>
> Keith
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki

	Mth




From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Dec 24 00:20:39 2007
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 23:20:39 +0000
Subject: Block Equality?
In-Reply-To: <DAEC0FF4-FCF2-4975-B1AF-F96C1E42661D@gmail.com>
References: <476EE78A.5090606@yahoo.co.uk>
	<DAEC0FF4-FCF2-4975-B1AF-F96C1E42661D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <476EED47.30007@yahoo.co.uk>

Mathieu Suen wrote:
> Yeap
> http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6599
>
> On Dec 23, 2007, at 11:56 PM, Keith Hodges wrote:
>
>   
>> I remember reading somewhere about a fix for testing block equality,  
>> but
>> cant remember where and I vaguely remember thinking it was
>> mentioned on this list.
>>
>> can anyone enlighten me?
>>
>> Keith
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>>     
Ahh,

I thought so, but... BlockContext doesnt have these

Keith

From mathk.sue at gmail.com  Mon Dec 24 00:29:08 2007
From: mathk.sue at gmail.com (Mathieu Suen)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 00:29:08 +0100
Subject: Block Equality?
In-Reply-To: <476EED47.30007@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <476EE78A.5090606@yahoo.co.uk>
	<DAEC0FF4-FCF2-4975-B1AF-F96C1E42661D@gmail.com>
	<476EED47.30007@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <E3F0800E-0E4C-4284-822C-EF557999B0D9@gmail.com>

Yes. It seems that equality is identity for BlockContext.
Should it be different?

On Dec 24, 2007, at 12:20 AM, Keith Hodges wrote:

> Mathieu Suen wrote:
>> Yeap
>> http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6599
>>
>> On Dec 23, 2007, at 11:56 PM, Keith Hodges wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I remember reading somewhere about a fix for testing block equality,
>>> but
>>> cant remember where and I vaguely remember thinking it was
>>> mentioned on this list.
>>>
>>> can anyone enlighten me?
>>>
>>> Keith
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>>>
> Ahh,
>
> I thought so, but... BlockContext doesnt have these
>
> Keith
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki

	Mth




From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Dec 24 00:29:24 2007
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 23:29:24 +0000
Subject: Block Equality?
In-Reply-To: <476EED47.30007@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <476EE78A.5090606@yahoo.co.uk>	<DAEC0FF4-FCF2-4975-B1AF-F96C1E42661D@gmail.com>
	<476EED47.30007@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <476EEF54.9020608@yahoo.co.uk>

Keith Hodges wrote:
> Mathieu Suen wrote:
>   
>> Yeap
>> http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6599
>>
>> On Dec 23, 2007, at 11:56 PM, Keith Hodges wrote:
>>
>>   
>>     
>>> I remember reading somewhere about a fix for testing block equality,  
>>> but
>>> cant remember where and I vaguely remember thinking it was
>>> mentioned on this list.
>>>
>>> can anyone enlighten me?
>>>
>>> Keith
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>>>     
>>>       
> Ahh,
>
> I thought so, but... BlockContext doesnt have these
>
> Keith
>   
Mathieu,

will this do the trick?

BlockContext<<#= other

    self class == other class ifFalse: [^ false].
    self home == other home ifFalse: [^ false].
    ^ self startpc == other startpc

Keith


From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Dec 24 00:41:17 2007
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 23:41:17 +0000
Subject: Block Equality?
In-Reply-To: <476EEF54.9020608@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <476EE78A.5090606@yahoo.co.uk>	<DAEC0FF4-FCF2-4975-B1AF-F96C1E42661D@gmail.com>	<476EED47.30007@yahoo.co.uk>
	<476EEF54.9020608@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <476EF21D.7070804@yahoo.co.uk>

Ok spoke too soon..

BlockContext>>#= other

    self class == other class ifFalse: [^ false].
    self home receiver == other home receiver ifFalse: [^ false].
    self home selector == other home selector ifFalse: [^ false].
    ^ self startpc == other startpc

If I am handed two block contexts that are defined in the same place and
have the same contents etc then identiy comparison returns false. the
above works.

Are you saying that defining #= on BlockContext like this is wrong or
will break something?

thanks in advance

Keith

p.s. it would help to know because I am finding it rather useful


From mathk.sue at gmail.com  Mon Dec 24 12:20:32 2007
From: mathk.sue at gmail.com (Mathieu Suen)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:20:32 +0100
Subject: Block Equality?
In-Reply-To: <476EF21D.7070804@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <476EE78A.5090606@yahoo.co.uk>	<DAEC0FF4-FCF2-4975-B1AF-F96C1E42661D@gmail.com>	<476EED47.30007@yahoo.co.uk>
	<476EEF54.9020608@yahoo.co.uk> <476EF21D.7070804@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <0841411F-3F14-4BF9-86EF-EDE3476B42C3@gmail.com>

I think that defining #= on blockContext is ok.
AFAIK No one in the image use it.



On Dec 24, 2007, at 12:41 AM, Keith Hodges wrote:

> Ok spoke too soon..
>
> BlockContext>>#= other
>
>    self class == other class ifFalse: [^ false].
>    self home receiver == other home receiver ifFalse: [^ false].
>    self home selector == other home selector ifFalse: [^ false].
>    ^ self startpc == other startpc
>
> If I am handed two block contexts that are defined in the same place  
> and
> have the same contents etc then identiy comparison returns false. the
> above works.
>
> Are you saying that defining #= on BlockContext like this is wrong or
> will break something?
>
> thanks in advance
>
> Keith
>
> p.s. it would help to know because I am finding it rather useful
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki

	Mth