From billksun at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  1 04:41:42 2006
From: billksun at yahoo.com (Bill Sun)
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 19:41:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pier/Magritte Question] Customizing Edit Form Page
Message-ID: <20060901024142.98754.qmail@web53303.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi all,

I want to make changes to the "Edit Form" page, specifically, I want to add commands to allow the reordering of the html elements, so that I can re-arrange the order of the elements after I have created them.  Where do I make the changes at?

I traced the code back to MAContainerComponent, but got lost there.

-Bill


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/pipermail/smallwiki/attachments/20060901/c9fa217c/attachment.html

From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Fri Sep  1 07:18:20 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 07:18:20 +0200
Subject: [Pier/Magritte Question] Customizing Edit Form Page
In-Reply-To: <20060901024142.98754.qmail@web53303.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060901024142.98754.qmail@web53303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <99D1B0A8-9696-41E1-8F69-AAEBAB212479@iam.unibe.ch>

> I want to make changes to the "Edit Form" page, specifically, I  
> want to add commands to allow the reordering of the html elements,  
> so that I can re-arrange the order of the elements after I have  
> created them.  Where do I make the changes at?

What kind of HTML elements do you want to reorder? The input fields  
of the Edit Form? Or the text in the TextArea? Or What?

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From billksun at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  1 07:29:44 2006
From: billksun at yahoo.com (Bill Sun)
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 22:29:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pier/Magritte Question] Customizing Edit Form Page
In-Reply-To: <99D1B0A8-9696-41E1-8F69-AAEBAB212479@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <20060901052944.26638.qmail@web53307.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm not trying to reorder HTML elements of the Edit Form page, rather, I'm trying to reorder the elements (text field, text area, options...etc) in the Form that the Edit Form page is editing.  So far, you can edit and remove elements, but not reorder them.

-Bill

----- Original Message ----
From: Lukas Renggli <renggli at iam.unibe.ch>
To: "Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ..." <smallwiki at iam.unibe.ch>
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:18:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Pier/Magritte Question] Customizing Edit Form Page

> I want to make changes to the "Edit Form" page, specifically, I  
> want to add commands to allow the reordering of the html elements,  
> so that I can re-arrange the order of the elements after I have  
> created them.  Where do I make the changes at?

What kind of HTML elements do you want to reorder? The input fields  
of the Edit Form? Or the text in the TextArea? Or What?

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



_______________________________________________
SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/pipermail/smallwiki/attachments/20060901/0842bea3/attachment.html

From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Fri Sep  1 07:36:14 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 07:36:14 +0200
Subject: [Pier/Magritte Question] Customizing Edit Form Page
In-Reply-To: <20060901052944.26638.qmail@web53307.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060901052944.26638.qmail@web53307.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0EA44A52-3EF2-4B03-BE4E-C42E44FA33EF@iam.unibe.ch>

> I'm not trying to reorder HTML elements of the Edit Form page,  
> rather, I'm trying to reorder the elements (text field, text area,  
> options...etc) in the Form that the Edit Form page is editing.  So  
> far, you can edit and remove elements, but not reorder them.

Aha, I see. The description methods (methods starting with  
#description) on the class side of PRStructure and its subclassses  
are the thing you want to look at. These methods answer descriptions  
with priorities and get sorted according to this number to place them  
in order.

Hope this helps,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From billksun at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  1 19:44:56 2006
From: billksun at yahoo.com (Bill Sun)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 10:44:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pier/Magritte Question] Customizing Edit Form Page
In-Reply-To: <0EA44A52-3EF2-4B03-BE4E-C42E44FA33EF@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <20060901174456.63244.qmail@web53310.mail.yahoo.com>

I appologize for my vagueness, after digging into the workings of the code more, I realized I should of said: "How do I reorder the instance-based descriptions"?

In the form editor (invoked by PREditFormCommand), editing the priorities of the descriptions labeled under "elements" in an adaptive form doesn't seem to do anything.  An example of the type of description editor that I'm looking for is the form editor in Aare that you presented in your master thesis, where you can move the order of the descriptions up and down, in addition to removing and editing them.

Let me know if I'm still not making much sense here.  This meta stuff and Smalltalk are still very new to me, so I might not be using the correct terminologies here.

-Bill

----- Original Message ----
From: Lukas Renggli <renggli at iam.unibe.ch>
To: "Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ..." <smallwiki at iam.unibe.ch>
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:36:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Pier/Magritte Question] Customizing Edit Form Page

> I'm not trying to reorder HTML elements of the Edit Form page,  
> rather, I'm trying to reorder the elements (text field, text area,  
> options...etc) in the Form that the Edit Form page is editing.  So  
> far, you can edit and remove elements, but not reorder them.

Aha, I see. The description methods (methods starting with  
#description) on the class side of PRStructure and its subclassses  
are the thing you want to look at. These methods answer descriptions  
with priorities and get sorted according to this number to place them  
in order.

Hope this helps,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



_______________________________________________
SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/pipermail/smallwiki/attachments/20060901/ee68ed84/attachment.html

From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Fri Sep  1 21:34:26 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 21:34:26 +0200
Subject: [Pier/Magritte Question] Customizing Edit Form Page
In-Reply-To: <20060901174456.63244.qmail@web53310.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060901174456.63244.qmail@web53310.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <10B1C56A-B03D-43B5-87C3-870A89D35A33@iam.unibe.ch>

> In the form editor (invoked by PREditFormCommand), editing the  
> priorities of the descriptions labeled under "elements" in an  
> adaptive form doesn't seem to do anything.  An example of the type  
> of description editor that I'm looking for is the form editor in  
> Aare that you presented in your master thesis, where you can move  
> the order of the descriptions up and down, in addition to removing  
> and editing them.

Now I understand. You found a bug! ;-)

The problem was that the description of the container didn't set the  
children to ordered and then the report didn't display the 'up' and  
'down' links. This bug is fixed in Magritte-Model-lr.225. Thanks for  
reporting.

	MAContainer class>>descriptionChildren
	  ^ (MAToManyRelationDescription accessor: (MASelectorAccessor read:  
#children write: #setChildren:) label: 'Elements' priority: 400  
default: self defaultCollection)
	    classes: (MADynamicObject on: [ MAElementDescription  
withAllConcreteClasses ]);
	    beOrdered;  " <--- this was missing "
	    yourself

Some background information: The Form Editor in Pier is completely  
auto generated, there is no additional code. In contrary the editor  
in Aare, a commercial workflow definition and management system, has  
been especially customized for this application. Therefor it displays  
only a small selection of relevant tools for our customer.

> Let me know if I'm still not making much sense here.  This meta  
> stuff and Smalltalk are still very new to me, so I might not be  
> using the correct terminologies here.

Btw, I'll be at Camp-Smalltalk and ESUG in Prague starting from  
Saturday for a week. If anybody is interested to participate and I  
find some spare time I would like to start with new (not sure yet if  
this will be 1.1 or 2.0) and rethought version of Magritte. And yes,  
I will also give two Seaside related presentations ;-)

See you in Prague,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From billksun at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  1 22:09:32 2006
From: billksun at yahoo.com (Bill Sun)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 13:09:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pier/Magritte Question] Customizing Edit Form Page
In-Reply-To: <10B1C56A-B03D-43B5-87C3-870A89D35A33@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <20060901200932.28252.qmail@web53310.mail.yahoo.com>

>    MAContainer class>>descriptionChildren
>      ^ (MAToManyRelationDescription accessor: (MASelectorAccessor read:  
>#children write: #setChildren:) label: 'Elements' priority: 400  
>default: self defaultCollection)
>        classes: (MADynamicObject on: [ MAElementDescription  
>withAllConcreteClasses ]);
>        beOrdered;  " <--- this was missing "
>        yourself

Ah yes, I found out about this part myself as well, but I held back on my findings because I think I messed something up and now my adaptive form won't save the changes that I made to the metamodel.

Anyway, glad my poking around aided in the discovery and squashing of bug :)

-Bill

----- Original Message ----
From: Lukas Renggli <renggli at iam.unibe.ch>
To: "Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ..." <smallwiki at iam.unibe.ch>
Sent: Friday, September 1, 2006 12:34:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Pier/Magritte Question] Customizing Edit Form Page

> In the form editor (invoked by PREditFormCommand), editing the  
> priorities of the descriptions labeled under "elements" in an  
> adaptive form doesn't seem to do anything.  An example of the type  
> of description editor that I'm looking for is the form editor in  
> Aare that you presented in your master thesis, where you can move  
> the order of the descriptions up and down, in addition to removing  
> and editing them.

Now I understand. You found a bug! ;-)

The problem was that the description of the container didn't set the  
children to ordered and then the report didn't display the 'up' and  
'down' links. This bug is fixed in Magritte-Model-lr.225. Thanks for  
reporting.

    MAContainer class>>descriptionChildren
      ^ (MAToManyRelationDescription accessor: (MASelectorAccessor read:  
#children write: #setChildren:) label: 'Elements' priority: 400  
default: self defaultCollection)
        classes: (MADynamicObject on: [ MAElementDescription  
withAllConcreteClasses ]);
        beOrdered;  " <--- this was missing "
        yourself

Some background information: The Form Editor in Pier is completely  
auto generated, there is no additional code. In contrary the editor  
in Aare, a commercial workflow definition and management system, has  
been especially customized for this application. Therefor it displays  
only a small selection of relevant tools for our customer.

> Let me know if I'm still not making much sense here.  This meta  
> stuff and Smalltalk are still very new to me, so I might not be  
> using the correct terminologies here.

Btw, I'll be at Camp-Smalltalk and ESUG in Prague starting from  
Saturday for a week. If anybody is interested to participate and I  
find some spare time I would like to start with new (not sure yet if  
this will be 1.1 or 2.0) and rethought version of Magritte. And yes,  
I will also give two Seaside related presentations ;-)

See you in Prague,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



_______________________________________________
SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/pipermail/smallwiki/attachments/20060901/47a9da8b/attachment.html

From dpp at athena.com  Fri Sep  8 00:27:49 2006
From: dpp at athena.com (David Pollak)
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 15:27:49 -0700
Subject: Adding/changing users in Pier with Security
Message-ID: <1026C237-5E34-40DA-89F8-E15177447472@athena.com>

Howdy,

I've configured Pier with Security.  The system creates an admin  
user.  How can I (1) change the admin user's password and (2) create  
additional users?

Also, is there an easy way to walk the existing Pier components and  
set them all as owned by admin?

Thanks,

David



From dpp at athena.com  Fri Sep  8 01:48:01 2006
From: dpp at athena.com (David Pollak)
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 16:48:01 -0700
Subject: [ANN] Seaside/Pier image available
Message-ID: <BCB27452-1686-41A7-A345-AAC4E88EECDD@athena.com>

Folks,

I put together a 3.8 Seaside and Pier image.  It's available for  
download from http://dppruby.com/seaside_pier.zip.

It's the Seaside 2.6b1 for 3.8 off the Seaside site plus the latest  
'lr' packages from Monticello as per the Pier installation  
instructions.  I added the 'Pier Security' package along with all the  
packages listed as "development" on the Pier site.

The username/password for the Pier administrator is 'admin/pier'

This is the first time I've made an image available.  If there are  
things I did wrong in the preparation of the image, the packaging of  
the image, or in this announcement, please let me know.  I want to  
improve the way I interface with the Squeak/Seaside/Pier communities  
and feedback is the best way to help me do that.

Thanks,

David



From David.Tibbe at student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de  Fri Sep  8 09:58:20 2006
From: David.Tibbe at student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de (Tibbe David)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 09:58:20 +0200
Subject: AW: Adding/changing users in Pier with Security
In-Reply-To: <1026C237-5E34-40DA-89F8-E15177447472@athena.com>
Message-ID: <E2D2FD80B7DC0D4389821DBF6948380206C9AA@3mxstu1r.hpi.uni-potsdam.de>

Hi, 

> I've configured Pier with Security.
Lukas' Pier Unix Security?
The following refers to that package.

> The system creates an admin user.  How can I (1) change the admin
user's password
You can send the message "password: aString" to the PUUser, that will
change it.
Some time ago I wrote a litte Command that allows users to change their
own password. If you want to have it, just mail me.

> and (2) create additional users?
Create a new PUUser:
u := (PUUser named: 'newName')
      password: 'newPassword').
And add it to the users-Property of the kernel:
(myKernel propertyAt: #users) add: u.

It is the same for adding new groups to the kernel.
Each PUUser has a message "addGroup: aPUGrup", so you can place a user
into different groups.

> Also, is there an easy way to walk the existing Pier components and
set them all as owned by admin?
In the Wiki you have three commands "Change Owner", "Change Group" and
"Change Other". Select the page you want to change from the tree (e.g.
the root page) and select "Change Owner". Check "Recursive" and select
"Admin" from the Owner-Select-Box. As Operator you want to have "Set".
Finally you can specify the access to the different available commands
for that user.
Remeber: If a user is a Superuser, then he will be able to access all
commands, even those he is not allowed to acces by the security settings
for Owner/Group/Other.

Regards,
  David


From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Sep  9 02:56:52 2006
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2006 01:56:52 +0100
Subject: Magma+Pier integration It works!
Message-ID: <45021154.8090209@yahoo.co.uk>

The story so far....

you need Seaside latest
(Scriptaculous latest optional)
you need Pier
you need Magma, MagmaServerLoader from squeaksource/Magma or 
squeaksource/MagmaTester

you need 'Magma seaside' from squeaksource/MagmaTester
you need Pier-Magma from the pier repository.

you will also need Pier-Seaside-kph.80 or greater
and Pier-Model-kph.79 or greater these are my changes to Pier that have 
yet to be ratified by Lukas.

----

With all of that loaded.
1.  In pier configuration, add the WAMagmaConfiguration to the 
configuation panels.
2.  override the magma repository setting, and 'Magma Control Panel' 
should appear.
3. Enter a directory name for your pier repository (it doesnt have to be 
a fully qualified pathname)
e.g. 'magma-pier' click 'Save' to accept this setting
4. Click on 'Magma Control Panel', which will inform you that the 
repository does not exist.
4a. If you are on seasidehosting then you will have to manually create 
the repository directory.
5. Given the list of options as to what repository to create, click the 
'create' button (and wait).
6. The existing pier kernel should appear in the list with a 'persist' 
button next to it, click 'persist'.
7. Try it and see!

I am about to go and try my own instructions out, and then I shall 
upload a preloaded image to
ftp.seasidehosting.st username: preloaded password: squeak

let me know how you get on

Keith



		
___________________________________________________________ 
Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. "The New Version is radically easier to use" ? The Wall Street Journal 
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Sep  9 06:09:57 2006
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2006 05:09:57 +0100
Subject: [ANN] Seaside+Pier+Magma image available
Message-ID: <45023E95.8030106@yahoo.co.uk>

First (alpha!) release of Pier running with Magma Persistency.
 
Image available from ftp.seasidehosting.st
User: preloaded Password: squeak

enjoy

Keith
------
Image Use Instructions
In pier configuration click on 'Magma Control Panel', which will inform 
you that the repository does not exist. If you have placed this image on 
seasidehosting then you will have to manually create the repository 
directory. Given the list of options as to what repository to create, 
click the 'create' button (and wait).  The existing pier kernel should 
appear in the list with a 'persist' button next to it, click 'persist'. 
Then try it and see!
------
------
Detailed Log of Image Creation Steps (alternative title: "monticello 
tutorial")

This image was prepared as follows:
Beginning with Squeak3.8-6555full

Initial start asks for updates: select "do not ask again" - this is 
important should you wish to deploy. Headless servers (e.g. 
seasidehosting) cannot handle user interaction and will stop at this point.

 From "world menu > open.... > Monticello Browser"
Browser opens with (Monticello....)

Click the "+Repository Button", select "HTTP" as the repository type, 
and enter

MCHttpRepository
    location: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/Seaside'
    user: ''
    password: ''

as the repository info (if you have a login on Squeaksource then you can 
enter your initials
as the 'user' above.)

Add the following repository for Monticello.

MCHttpRepository
    location: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/Monticello'
    user: ''
    password: ''

Add the following repository for Magma.

MCHttpRepository
    location: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/MagmaTester'
    user: ''
    password: ''

and the following two repositories for Magritte and Pier

 MCHttpRepository
    location: 'http://mc.lukas-renggli.ch/magritte'
    user: ''
    password: ''

 MCHttpRepository
    location: 'http://mc.lukas-renggli.ch/pier'
    user: ''
    password: ''

also:

MCHttpRepository
    location: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/OmniBrowser'
    user: ''
    password: ''

(to edit this information:
click the menu button in the right hand pane of the Monticello Browser)
----
Loading Latest Monticello.

More recent versions of Monticello provide better feedback as to which 
packages are currently loaded.

Select the http://www.squeaksource.com/Monticello repository, click 
"open", select the latest package (Monticello-avi.279) from the main 
"Monticello" branch, and click "load".

Select the Monticello package on the left hand pane, and the 
squeaksource/Monticello repository in the right hand pane. Click 'open'.
In the repository browser, click on the latest version 
(Monticello-avi.279.mcz) and click 'Load'.
----
Loading Seaside

Select "world menu > open... SqueakMap"... and a dialog will ask if you 
wish to upgrade SqueakMap. Which you do. Notice that SMBase, SMLoader 
packages appeaer in the Monticello browser, since the upgrade is 
performed by loading Monticello packages.

In SqueakMap, select the ever so convenient "Seaside Installer" which 
should load in the whole of seaside with its dependencies in one go. To 
do this select the left had pane menu button, "install". (Part way 
through the install you will be prompted to enter an admin username 
(seaside) and password (admin))
 
(if SqueakMap doesnt work it is being knobbled by a more recent 
package-cache, remove it and try again)

Select the seaside repositoryClick the "open" and the repository browser 
will open.

Select Seaside2.6b1 which is the current latest. In the right hand pane 
are the releases. Releases may be made by anyone and they may be small 
branches off from the main stream. Periodically an effort will be made 
to ensure that all changes are merged. Click the history button in order 
to browse the history of this package to get some idea of what is going 
on. Look at the ancestors of a package to see if one version is being 
sequentially built on the next, or whether any branching is occurring. 
Seaside is fairly mature and changes infrequent, therefore it is likely 
to be safe to grab the latest version.

Loaded Seaside2.6b1-mb.79
Loaded Scriptaculous-lr.137

To start Seaside doit:
WAKom startOn: 8080.
( Or use the "beach flags" SeasideMorph
available from: http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/5862 )

To test if everything is running, check the following url in your normal 
web browser.
http://localhost:8080/seaside/config

you should be prompted for you username and password (as given earlier).
----
Loading Magma

Back to the Monticello Browser. Deselect the selected package by 
clicking on it once. This should re-reveal all of the registered 
repositories.

(It is worth saving this. In the right hand side pane menu button there 
is a menu item: "Save Repositories", which writes a simple configuration 
script to the working directory.)

Select the http://www.squeaksource.com/MagmaTester repository, and click 
"open".

Select MagmaServerLoader, and click "load". (it takes a while!)

loaded MagmaServerLoader-cmm.21
loaded Ma client server-cmm.123
loaded Ma exception handling-cmm.22
loaded Ma time objects-cmm.37
----
Load Magma Seaside Integration Package

Select "Magma Seaside" (lhs) and the latest package and click "load",

loaded Magma Seaside-kph.18
----
Load Magma Seaside Sushi Store Demo fixes

loaded Seaside-Examples-Store-Magma.kph-11
----
 
Before using Magma may need to execute the following.

MagmaSession initialize.
MagmaRepositoryController initialize.

useful snippets
MagmaSession allInstances cleanUp.
MagmaSession disconnectAndCloseAllConnectedSessions.

----
Load Magritte
loaded Magritte-All-lr.171
Load Pier
loaded Pier-All-lr.109
Load OmniBrowser
loaded OmniBrowser-avi.258
loaded Pier-OmniBrowser-lr.19
----
Latest Pier-Magma code

loaded Pier-Model-kph.80
loaded Pier-Seaside-kph.80
loaded Pier-Magma-kph.1
----
Pre-upload actions:
 
Monticello Browser - "flush cached versions".
----
Release Preloaded Image as Sqk3.8f-smp.image





		
___________________________________________________________ 
The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

From ducasse at iam.unibe.ch  Sat Sep  9 09:57:33 2006
From: ducasse at iam.unibe.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?st=E9phane_ducasse?=)
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 09:57:33 +0200
Subject: [ANN] Seaside+Pier+Magma image available
In-Reply-To: <45023E95.8030106@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <45023E95.8030106@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <2A3B1429-D0D5-489D-AD8B-A7633404940D@iam.unibe.ch>

Cool
I think that this is really important for pier to get multiple back  
end systems so that we can
choose and make sure that we can never lost the data.

Stef

On 9 sept. 06, at 06:09, Keith Hodges wrote:

> First (alpha!) release of Pier running with Magma Persistency.
>
> Image available from ftp.seasidehosting.st
> User: preloaded Password: squeak
>
> enjoy
>
> Keith
> ------
> Image Use Instructions
> In pier configuration click on 'Magma Control Panel', which will  
> inform
> you that the repository does not exist. If you have placed this  
> image on
> seasidehosting then you will have to manually create the repository
> directory. Given the list of options as to what repository to create,
> click the 'create' button (and wait).  The existing pier kernel should
> appear in the list with a 'persist' button next to it, click  
> 'persist'.
> Then try it and see!
> ------
> ------
> Detailed Log of Image Creation Steps (alternative title: "monticello
> tutorial")
>
> This image was prepared as follows:
> Beginning with Squeak3.8-6555full
>
> Initial start asks for updates: select "do not ask again" - this is
> important should you wish to deploy. Headless servers (e.g.
> seasidehosting) cannot handle user interaction and will stop at  
> this point.
>
>  From "world menu > open.... > Monticello Browser"
> Browser opens with (Monticello....)
>
> Click the "+Repository Button", select "HTTP" as the repository type,
> and enter
>
> MCHttpRepository
>     location: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/Seaside'
>     user: ''
>     password: ''
>
> as the repository info (if you have a login on Squeaksource then  
> you can
> enter your initials
> as the 'user' above.)
>
> Add the following repository for Monticello.
>
> MCHttpRepository
>     location: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/Monticello'
>     user: ''
>     password: ''
>
> Add the following repository for Magma.
>
> MCHttpRepository
>     location: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/MagmaTester'
>     user: ''
>     password: ''
>
> and the following two repositories for Magritte and Pier
>
>  MCHttpRepository
>     location: 'http://mc.lukas-renggli.ch/magritte'
>     user: ''
>     password: ''
>
>  MCHttpRepository
>     location: 'http://mc.lukas-renggli.ch/pier'
>     user: ''
>     password: ''
>
> also:
>
> MCHttpRepository
>     location: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/OmniBrowser'
>     user: ''
>     password: ''
>
> (to edit this information:
> click the menu button in the right hand pane of the Monticello  
> Browser)
> ----
> Loading Latest Monticello.
>
> More recent versions of Monticello provide better feedback as to which
> packages are currently loaded.
>
> Select the http://www.squeaksource.com/Monticello repository, click
> "open", select the latest package (Monticello-avi.279) from the main
> "Monticello" branch, and click "load".
>
> Select the Monticello package on the left hand pane, and the
> squeaksource/Monticello repository in the right hand pane. Click  
> 'open'.
> In the repository browser, click on the latest version
> (Monticello-avi.279.mcz) and click 'Load'.
> ----
> Loading Seaside
>
> Select "world menu > open... SqueakMap"... and a dialog will ask if  
> you
> wish to upgrade SqueakMap. Which you do. Notice that SMBase, SMLoader
> packages appeaer in the Monticello browser, since the upgrade is
> performed by loading Monticello packages.
>
> In SqueakMap, select the ever so convenient "Seaside Installer" which
> should load in the whole of seaside with its dependencies in one  
> go. To
> do this select the left had pane menu button, "install". (Part way
> through the install you will be prompted to enter an admin username
> (seaside) and password (admin))
>
> (if SqueakMap doesnt work it is being knobbled by a more recent
> package-cache, remove it and try again)
>
> Select the seaside repositoryClick the "open" and the repository  
> browser
> will open.
>
> Select Seaside2.6b1 which is the current latest. In the right hand  
> pane
> are the releases. Releases may be made by anyone and they may be small
> branches off from the main stream. Periodically an effort will be made
> to ensure that all changes are merged. Click the history button in  
> order
> to browse the history of this package to get some idea of what is  
> going
> on. Look at the ancestors of a package to see if one version is being
> sequentially built on the next, or whether any branching is occurring.
> Seaside is fairly mature and changes infrequent, therefore it is  
> likely
> to be safe to grab the latest version.
>
> Loaded Seaside2.6b1-mb.79
> Loaded Scriptaculous-lr.137
>
> To start Seaside doit:
> WAKom startOn: 8080.
> ( Or use the "beach flags" SeasideMorph
> available from: http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/5862 )
>
> To test if everything is running, check the following url in your  
> normal
> web browser.
> http://localhost:8080/seaside/config
>
> you should be prompted for you username and password (as given  
> earlier).
> ----
> Loading Magma
>
> Back to the Monticello Browser. Deselect the selected package by
> clicking on it once. This should re-reveal all of the registered
> repositories.
>
> (It is worth saving this. In the right hand side pane menu button  
> there
> is a menu item: "Save Repositories", which writes a simple  
> configuration
> script to the working directory.)
>
> Select the http://www.squeaksource.com/MagmaTester repository, and  
> click
> "open".
>
> Select MagmaServerLoader, and click "load". (it takes a while!)
>
> loaded MagmaServerLoader-cmm.21
> loaded Ma client server-cmm.123
> loaded Ma exception handling-cmm.22
> loaded Ma time objects-cmm.37
> ----
> Load Magma Seaside Integration Package
>
> Select "Magma Seaside" (lhs) and the latest package and click "load",
>
> loaded Magma Seaside-kph.18
> ----
> Load Magma Seaside Sushi Store Demo fixes
>
> loaded Seaside-Examples-Store-Magma.kph-11
> ----
>
> Before using Magma may need to execute the following.
>
> MagmaSession initialize.
> MagmaRepositoryController initialize.
>
> useful snippets
> MagmaSession allInstances cleanUp.
> MagmaSession disconnectAndCloseAllConnectedSessions.
>
> ----
> Load Magritte
> loaded Magritte-All-lr.171
> Load Pier
> loaded Pier-All-lr.109
> Load OmniBrowser
> loaded OmniBrowser-avi.258
> loaded Pier-OmniBrowser-lr.19
> ----
> Latest Pier-Magma code
>
> loaded Pier-Model-kph.80
> loaded Pier-Seaside-kph.80
> loaded Pier-Magma-kph.1
> ----
> Pre-upload actions:
>
> Monticello Browser - "flush cached versions".
> ----
> Release Preloaded Image as Sqk3.8f-smp.image
>
>
>
>
>
> 		
> ___________________________________________________________
> The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email  
> address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/ 
> nowyoucan.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki


From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Sep  9 19:05:21 2006
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2006 18:05:21 +0100
Subject: WAMagmaSharedSession
Message-ID: <4502F451.4060700@yahoo.co.uk>

In the latest Magma seaside package I have added an experimental session 
that only uses one session per repository. This makes sense (I think) 
for pier because pier manages its own model locking on its model.

Performance is much better too

Keith

		
___________________________________________________________ 
Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. "The New Version is radically easier to use" ? The Wall Street Journal 
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Sep  9 03:59:25 2006
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2006 02:59:25 +0100
Subject: PRKernel instances
In-Reply-To: <4502F451.4060700@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <4502F451.4060700@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <45021FFD.2010909@yahoo.co.uk>

Lukas,

I would like to change PRKernel instances to be managed by a KeyedSet. I 
am seeking prior approval before submitting the work.

I am looking forward to a time when there may be many many more pier 
kernels in one system, and the pier application serves them all (or a 
nominated subset) rather than just one.

Lookup performance will be better, especially with the Magma-Pier 
changes that I made to make the application preference a String 
#kernelName rather than a PRKernel instance #kernel.

Also error messages become consistent, e.g. creating a kernel with an 
already existing name.

your thoughts?

Keith
 

		
___________________________________________________________ 
NEW Yahoo! Cars - sell your car and browse thousands of new and used cars online! http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/

From Florent.Trolat at etu.univ-savoie.fr  Sun Sep 10 17:19:49 2006
From: Florent.Trolat at etu.univ-savoie.fr (=?iso-8859-15?q?Florent_Trolat?=)
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 17:19:49 +0200
Subject: =?iso-8859-15?q?scription_=3A_=27options=3A=27_which_depends_of_an_inMASi?=
	=?iso-8859-15?q?ngleOptionDestance_attribute?=
Message-ID: <20060910151949.22501.23038@portail.jacob.univ-savoie.fr>


Hi,

An object A have a collection of objects B. each objects B have a collection of objects C, and finnaly each object C have an attribute wich references an object B take in the collection of A.

A 1<=>* B 1<=>* C 1<=>1 B among the Collection of A


My problem :

In a description can I acces to the object which is currently describe?
I use a class variable style 'myCurrentObject' which I feel before compute the descritption but it smells bad... :-/

I hope that I've been understandable ;-)

Florent. :-) 



From Florent.Trolat at etu.univ-savoie.fr  Sun Sep 10 17:23:32 2006
From: Florent.Trolat at etu.univ-savoie.fr (=?iso-8859-15?q?Florent_Trolat?=)
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 17:23:32 +0200
Subject: =?iso-8859-15?q?Sorry_=3A_MASingleOptionDescription_=3A_=27options=3A=27_?=
	=?iso-8859-15?q?which_depends_of_an_instance_attribute?=
Message-ID: <20060910152332.22501.43618@portail.jacob.univ-savoie.fr>


Hi,

An object A have a collection of objects B. each objects B have a collection of objects C, and finnaly each object C have an attribute wich references an object B take in the collection of A.

A 1<=>* B 1<=>* C 1<=>1 B among the Collection of A


My problem :

In a description can I acces to the object which is currently describe?
I use a class variable style 'myCurrentObject' which I feel before compute the descritption but it smells bad... :-/

I hope that I've been understandable  ;-) 

Florent.  :-)  


From Florent.Trolat at etu.univ-savoie.fr  Sun Sep 10 17:46:59 2006
From: Florent.Trolat at etu.univ-savoie.fr (=?iso-8859-15?q?Florent_Trolat?=)
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 17:46:59 +0200
Subject: =?iso-8859-15?q?description_and_references_refresh_when_editing?=
Message-ID: <20060910154659.8692.2978@www9.univ-savoie.fr>


Hi,[re ;-)]

with the same case : 
----------------------------------------------------
An object A have a collection of objects B. each object B have a collection of objects C, and finnaly each object C have an attribute wich references an object B take in the collection of A.

A 1<=>* B 1<=>* C 1<=>1 B among the Collection of A-
-----------------------------------------------------

When I edit with seaside components an object A and if I add object B I need to save A to be able to use B objects, recently added, with C objects.

May be clearer :
Steps
1/ I edit A object
2/ I add B objects to the collection in A
3/ When creating B objects I want to add C objects
4/ When creating C objects ... the list of B objects in the object A is not already update and I have to previously save A to use the collection...

I believe my probleme is due to the memento pattern used when creating A object...
May be I need to commit A memento ? 
Thanks for your help

Florent.



From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Sun Sep 10 21:22:21 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 21:22:21 +0200
Subject: Sorry : MASingleOptionDescription : 'options:' which depends of
	an instance attribute
In-Reply-To: <20060910152332.22501.43618@portail.jacob.univ-savoie.fr>
References: <20060910152332.22501.43618@portail.jacob.univ-savoie.fr>
Message-ID: <E206D939-DEDC-493F-806B-06FDEFB9745F@iam.unibe.ch>

> [...]
>
> I hope that I've been understandable  ;-)

I don't exactly understand what you described, though I think I  
understand the problem described in the subject of your mail.

It is the easiest if you override #description on the instance-side  
of your object and manually add/change (a copy of) the  
MAOptionDescription to hold the objects you want in the list of options.

This is one of the things I would like to get fixed in the next big  
change of Magritte: have descriptions that belong to the instance  
being defined on the instance side, so that they can differ depending  
on the state of the model.

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From ducasse at iam.unibe.ch  Sun Sep 10 23:00:52 2006
From: ducasse at iam.unibe.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?st=E9phane_ducasse?=)
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 23:00:52 +0200
Subject: scription : 'options:' which depends of an
	inMASingleOptionDestance attribute
In-Reply-To: <20060910151949.22501.23038@portail.jacob.univ-savoie.fr>
References: <20060910151949.22501.23038@portail.jacob.univ-savoie.fr>
Message-ID: <C1274534-99D7-4B80-861D-5DFFE5606130@iam.unibe.ch>

why would you need that?
normally you should not mix level. Meta is about meta.


>
> Hi,
>
> An object A have a collection of objects B. each objects B have a  
> collection of objects C, and finnaly each object C have an  
> attribute wich references an object B take in the collection of A.
>
> A 1<=>* B 1<=>* C 1<=>1 B among the Collection of A
>
>
> My problem :
>
> In a description can I acces to the object which is currently  
> describe?
> I use a class variable style 'myCurrentObject' which I feel before  
> compute the descritption but it smells bad... :-/
>
> I hope that I've been understandable ;-)
>
> Florent. :-)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki


From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Mon Sep 11 08:53:15 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 08:53:15 +0200
Subject: Magritte 2 (was MASingleOptionDescription ...)
In-Reply-To: <C1274534-99D7-4B80-861D-5DFFE5606130@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <20060910151949.22501.23038@portail.jacob.univ-savoie.fr>
	<C1274534-99D7-4B80-861D-5DFFE5606130@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <441ADF04-ECD7-4CEE-833C-D2052C1BE26C@iam.unibe.ch>

> why would you need that?
> normally you should not mix level. Meta is about meta.

Are you talking about the following paragraph I wrote?

> This is one of the things I would like to get fixed in the next big
> change of Magritte: have descriptions that belong to the instance
> being defined on the instance side, so that they can differ depending
> on the state of the model.

If yes, the first point is my answer:

* In my opinion descriptions are orthogonal to the Smalltalk meta- 
hierarchy. Currently Magritte only allows to automatically compose  
and collect descriptions from the class-side that are then applied to  
the instance side. This sort of makes sense but gets complicated as  
soon as people want to change descriptions depending on the state of  
the object or want to apply descriptions to the class-side itself  
(there is no place to put these). Both use-cases are already possible  
right now, but they are unnecessary complex.

The only problem I see when putting the descriptions to the instance- 
side is that you require an instance of the object to get the meta- 
model. I don't know if anybody sees a possible problem with this?

* Another thing I would like to change is to get rid of the whole  
MAReferenceDescription hierarchy. Again this is something that is  
much more complex than it should be. Similar to EMOF I would like to  
add a multiplicity attribute directly to the basic description itself.

* And of course use less common selector names for extension methods  
to Object. ;-)

Any other important change-requests?

Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From ducasse at iam.unibe.ch  Mon Sep 11 09:08:05 2006
From: ducasse at iam.unibe.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?st=E9phane_ducasse?=)
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:08:05 +0200
Subject: Magritte 2 (was MASingleOptionDescription ...)
In-Reply-To: <441ADF04-ECD7-4CEE-833C-D2052C1BE26C@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <20060910151949.22501.23038@portail.jacob.univ-savoie.fr>
	<C1274534-99D7-4B80-861D-5DFFE5606130@iam.unibe.ch>
	<441ADF04-ECD7-4CEE-833C-D2052C1BE26C@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <BC89E9C8-9AB6-4C50-9B8D-F3FB61F451AC@iam.unibe.ch>

No I was talking about the question of florent to have reference to  
the base object in the metadescription.

Stef

On 11 sept. 06, at 08:53, Lukas Renggli wrote:

>> why would you need that?
>> normally you should not mix level. Meta is about meta.
>
> Are you talking about the following paragraph I wrote?
>
>> This is one of the things I would like to get fixed in the next big
>> change of Magritte: have descriptions that belong to the instance
>> being defined on the instance side, so that they can differ depending
>> on the state of the model.
>
> If yes, the first point is my answer:
>
> * In my opinion descriptions are orthogonal to the Smalltalk meta-
> hierarchy. Currently Magritte only allows to automatically compose
> and collect descriptions from the class-side that are then applied to
> the instance side. This sort of makes sense but gets complicated as
> soon as people want to change descriptions depending on the state of
> the object or want to apply descriptions to the class-side itself
> (there is no place to put these). Both use-cases are already possible
> right now, but they are unnecessary complex.
>
> The only problem I see when putting the descriptions to the instance-
> side is that you require an instance of the object to get the meta-
> model. I don't know if anybody sees a possible problem with this?
>
> * Another thing I would like to change is to get rid of the whole
> MAReferenceDescription hierarchy. Again this is something that is
> much more complex than it should be. Similar to EMOF I would like to
> add a multiplicity attribute directly to the basic description itself.
>
> * And of course use less common selector names for extension methods
> to Object. ;-)
>
> Any other important change-requests?
>
> Lukas
>
> -- 
> Lukas Renggli
> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki


From Florent.Trolat at etu.univ-savoie.fr  Mon Sep 11 13:44:27 2006
From: Florent.Trolat at etu.univ-savoie.fr (=?iso-8859-15?q?Florent_Trolat?=)
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 13:44:27 +0200
Subject: =?iso-8859-15?q?Re=3A_Magritte_2_=28was_MASingleOptionDescription_=2E=2E?=
	=?iso-8859-15?q?=2E=29?=
Message-ID: <20060911114427.22652.96909@portail.annecy.univ-savoie.fr>




 In fact I've several cases with this problem :

My first example :

I want to built a graph :
1/ I edit the graph
2/ I add some state
3/ I add transitions wich needs the collection of state previously add to the graph

=> lukas have understand I think my problem... it's very usefull to have a description "instance side"...

Steph : it's does not make sens to do this with meta level?


From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Sep 11 15:40:46 2006
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:40:46 +0100
Subject: MAPierMainAllKernels
In-Reply-To: <45021154.8090209@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <45021154.8090209@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4505675E.4020107@yahoo.co.uk>

In my recent fork of Pier-Seaside, I have added PRPierMainAllKernels, a 
subclass of PRPierMain which serves all of the current kernels.

Keith

		
___________________________________________________________ 
Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage with All New Yahoo! Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

From m.rueger at acm.org  Mon Sep 11 16:47:36 2006
From: m.rueger at acm.org (Michael Rueger)
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 10:47:36 -0400
Subject: [Seaside] Problem with german characters
In-Reply-To: <67628d690609110744k6ac7259cme490f6992fec1110@mail.gmail.com>
References: <45056D72.8070700@libsource.com>
	<67628d690609110744k6ac7259cme490f6992fec1110@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45057708.4060404@acm.org>

Lukas Renggli wrote:

> Every so often I hear that people are trying to register at
> <http://impara.de/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki>, what does not work as
> this is just a mirror of the archive. I think it would be good to
> disable this form. Who is responsible?

That would be me.

> The official mailing-list registration and the archive is reachable at
> <https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki>.

I would really like to suggest to move the smallwiki list to a mailman 
installation so we can get rid of this rather complicated arrangement. 
The list probably could be hosted on the squeak servers?

Michael

From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Mon Sep 11 16:55:33 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 16:55:33 +0200
Subject: [Seaside] Problem with german characters
In-Reply-To: <45057708.4060404@acm.org>
References: <45056D72.8070700@libsource.com>
	<67628d690609110744k6ac7259cme490f6992fec1110@mail.gmail.com>
	<45057708.4060404@acm.org>
Message-ID: <494743A8-B077-48DF-92CA-E5D556600A88@iam.unibe.ch>

Hi Michael,

 > > The official mailing-list registration and the archive is  
reachable at
 > > <https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki>.
 >
 > I would really like to suggest to move the smallwiki list to a  
mailman
 > installation so we can get rid of this rather complicated  
arrangement.
 > The list probably could be hosted on the squeak servers?

in fact this transition to mail-man has been done a long time ago. As
you can see it already works on mailman, not on a Squeak server but on
the University. There is also the complete archive, so the mirror at
impara.de is not really necessary anymore. Could you disable it? Or
are there other implications I do not see?

Cheers,
Lukas

--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

From m.rueger at acm.org  Mon Sep 11 17:24:34 2006
From: m.rueger at acm.org (Michael Rueger)
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:24:34 -0400
Subject: [Seaside] Problem with german characters
In-Reply-To: <494743A8-B077-48DF-92CA-E5D556600A88@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <45056D72.8070700@libsource.com>	<67628d690609110744k6ac7259cme490f6992fec1110@mail.gmail.com>	<45057708.4060404@acm.org>
	<494743A8-B077-48DF-92CA-E5D556600A88@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <45057FB2.7030403@acm.org>

Lukas Renggli wrote:

> in fact this transition to mail-man has been done a long time ago. As

Oh, never noticed it...

> you can see it already works on mailman, not on a Squeak server but on
> the University. There is also the complete archive, so the mirror at
> impara.de is not really necessary anymore. Could you disable it? Or
> are there other implications I do not see?

Less work for me :-)
Do any links to the archive need updating?
I will disable the Smallwiki mirror then end of the week...

Thanks

Michael

From ramon.leon at allresnet.com  Mon Sep 11 17:25:04 2006
From: ramon.leon at allresnet.com (Ramon Leon)
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 08:25:04 -0700
Subject: Magritte 2 (was MASingleOptionDescription ...)
In-Reply-To: <441ADF04-ECD7-4CEE-833C-D2052C1BE26C@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <00d901c6d5b6$74daac50$9700a8c0@hq.allresnet.com>

> * Another thing I would like to change is to get rid of the 
> whole MAReferenceDescription hierarchy. Again this is 
> something that is much more complex than it should be. 
> Similar to EMOF I would like to add a multiplicity attribute 
> directly to the basic description itself.

:)

> * And of course use less common selector names for extension 
> methods to Object. ;-)

Yah! :)

> Any other important change-requests?
> 
> Lukas

Yes, please try to keep everything 3.8 compatible, I see it being my
production platform for quite a while.  It took a long time to trust 3.8,
it'll take a while before I learn to trust 3.9.  Oh, and keep up the great
work, your stuff rocks!


From cbeler at enit.fr  Mon Sep 11 18:02:40 2006
From: cbeler at enit.fr (=?UTF-8?B?Q8OpZHJpY2sgQsOpbGVy?=)
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:02:40 +0200
Subject: Magritte 2 (was MASingleOptionDescription ...)
In-Reply-To: <441ADF04-ECD7-4CEE-833C-D2052C1BE26C@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <20060910151949.22501.23038@portail.jacob.univ-savoie.fr>	<C1274534-99D7-4B80-861D-5DFFE5606130@iam.unibe.ch>
	<441ADF04-ECD7-4CEE-833C-D2052C1BE26C@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <450588A0.6040502@enit.fr>

Hi All
> The only problem I see when putting the descriptions to the instance- 
> side is that you require an instance of the object to get the meta- 
> model. I don't know if anybody sees a possible problem with this?
>   
a bit like in MEWA. I don't really care but I found more elegant without 
adding instance variables. Wouldn't it be possible to use Pragma on each 
inst var accessors ?
> * Another thing I would like to change is to get rid of the whole  
> MAReferenceDescription hierarchy. Again this is something that is  
> much more complex than it should be. 
Yes I agree with that... we should have some primitiveDescriptions and 
ReferenceDescriptions only. With a boolean telling if the description is 
single or multi valuated.  Then, a MAOptionDescription would be a 
MAStringDescription with say indexed=true and maybe a cardinality var (?).

Also, I thing we need to have the possibility to associate 
referenceProperties either with existing instances (of a class)  or with 
new created ones (of the same class).

> Similar to EMOF I would like to  
> add a multiplicity attribute directly to the basic description itself.
>   
EMOF will allow to represent the behavior of domain classes ?
>
> Any other important change-requests?
>
>
>   
I have some though they may be unrealistic ;)

- Would it be possible to declare dependencies between descriptions ? 
For instance, to avoid some combinations of value because of semantics 
reasons or also to shrink another description domain. Would it worth 
reifiing the concept of domain to achieve that?  My concern is more 
about knowledge representation, ontology-like. I think we miss a tool 
like that in squeak/ST and Magritte seems close to that. Magritte allows 
to meta described a domain ? and even more... as it seems to me that we 
can metadescribed a bit everything (a GUI, descriptions themselves, 
etc...). How do you position Magritte compared to an ontology tool ? 
(especialy with this one: 
http://www.old.netobjectdays.org/pdf/00/slides/knublauch_pr.pdf or 
http://www.knublauch.com/publications/KBeans-Technical-Report-FAW.pdf)
Maybe having an ontology tool would mean to have it's own "ontology" 
model that in turn can be described with Magritte...

- For instance, some conditions are now difficult (or impossible to 
model). Now it seems to me that we can mainly add unary constraints. It 
could be convenient to add binary conditions, that would do delayed 
validation (diplaying warnings for example). I tryied to implement a 
simple model (like in the example of the slides of the previous link, 
see the attached picture of the class diagram) with some constraints and 
I just don't know how to do that whith Magritte right now. I joined a 
"first try" (attached .st file). Subclassing was not necessary but I 
think it's good to illustrate waht we can do or not.
Is it possible to discuss on this model and see how magritte can help to 
model it. Do you want Magritte to model such kind of domains ? or is it 
too much "knowledge", "OCL" oriented ?

- Last and more fanciful, after seeing dabble :) I was wondering if it'd 
be possible to transform a StringDescription in another kind of 
description (hence modifiing the underliing model and existing 
instances) String to date, String to object...  I think that would allow 
to have a cool modeling tool but it must be out of the scope of Magritte....

Hope there are some interesting ideas ;) ... 

Cheers,
C?drick

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: constrainedModel.png
Type: image/png
Size: 42551 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.iam.unibe.ch/pipermail/smallwiki/attachments/20060911/42209823/constrainedModel-0001.png
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ModelTest-Magritte.st
Type: application/squeak-changeset
Size: 6393 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.iam.unibe.ch/pipermail/smallwiki/attachments/20060911/42209823/ModelTest-Magritte-0001.bin

From philippe.marschall at gmail.com  Tue Sep 12 00:33:15 2006
From: philippe.marschall at gmail.com (Philippe Marschall)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 00:33:15 +0200
Subject: PRKernel instances
In-Reply-To: <45021FFD.2010909@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <4502F451.4060700@yahoo.co.uk> <45021FFD.2010909@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <66666f210609111533w3e189597p18bcbf0587247242@mail.gmail.com>

2006/9/9, Keith Hodges <keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk>:
> Lukas,
>
> I would like to change PRKernel instances to be managed by a KeyedSet. I
> am seeking prior approval before submitting the work.
>
> I am looking forward to a time when there may be many many more pier
> kernels in one system, and the pier application serves them all (or a
> nominated subset) rather than just one.
>
> Lookup performance will be better, especially with the Magma-Pier
> changes that I made to make the application preference a String
> #kernelName rather than a PRKernel instance #kernel.
>
> Also error messages become consistent, e.g. creating a kernel with an
> already existing name.
>
> your thoughts?

I dislike KeyedSets because they don't work well together with
persistence in general. But if we use a symbol instead of a block
(Magritte adds #value: to Symbol) we should be able to work around
this.

Philippe

From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Sep 11 01:32:32 2006
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 00:32:32 +0100
Subject: [Smallwiki] Re: PRKernel instances
In-Reply-To: <66666f210609111533w3e189597p18bcbf0587247242@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4502F451.4060700@yahoo.co.uk> <45021FFD.2010909@yahoo.co.uk>
	<66666f210609111533w3e189597p18bcbf0587247242@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4504A090.6080508@yahoo.co.uk>

KeyedSets do not have to use a block, if the items respond to #key. Its 
a bit of a hack but in this case all it needs is for PRKernel to 
implement #key.

As for persistence not working with it, surely that has to be a 
limitation of a particular persistence solution. As far as Magma is 
concerned I dont think it is necessary to persist "PRKernel instances". 
I agree that it would be much nicer if Magma did support KeyedSets fully 
which it doesnt. I would happily put a KeyedSet in as my repository 
root. (I already tried it).

Keith
> I dislike KeyedSets because they don't work well together with
> persistence in general. But if we use a symbol instead of a block
> (Magritte adds #value: to Symbol) we should be able to work around
> this.
>
> Philippe
>
>   


	
	
		
___________________________________________________________ 
All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine 
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Sep 11 02:30:59 2006
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 01:30:59 +0100
Subject: Context-#session
In-Reply-To: <66666f210609111533w3e189597p18bcbf0587247242@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4502F451.4060700@yahoo.co.uk> <45021FFD.2010909@yahoo.co.uk>
	<66666f210609111533w3e189597p18bcbf0587247242@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4504AE43.9080600@yahoo.co.uk>

In trying to implement MagmaPersistency it turns out that the fact that 
PRContext holds a local cache to the current session may be a bit of a 
pain. Not only may there be a lot more stuff accidentally persisted 
through this reference, there may actually be objects that magma gurus 
say 'don't persist these if you know what is good for you'.

I cant see that this cache is widely used, so I wondered if anyone would 
object if it was removed

i.e. make this method lookup the current session the hard but not all 
that slow way (about 100 microseconds, on my oldish 700Mhz machine)

PRContext>>session

^ WACurrentSession value

any thoughts/opinions?

Keith



		
___________________________________________________________ 
The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

From chris at funkyobjects.org  Tue Sep 12 03:44:54 2006
From: chris at funkyobjects.org (Chris Muller)
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:44:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Context-#session
In-Reply-To: <4504AE43.9080600@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20060912014454.25414.qmail@web31804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

> The problem that I have is that pier saves its history by saving its
> instances of PRContext', namely the context of the model changing
> command being performed. This context happens to have a local cache
> in
> it's properties the seaside session ('to avoid unneccessary
> lookups'),
> which if it is WAMagmaSession has a magmaSession instance var.
> 
> Now I could attempt to clear this cached value out before persistence
> takes place, but I see no guarantees that some other bit of code may
> reference the session and repopulate the cached value while I am not
> looking.

Hi Keith, could the MagmaSessions #location help here?  The #location
gives you a MagmaLocation which was intended for this purpose; it can
be serialized/materialized, and let you get a #newSession any time. 
You could clear the cached value before persistence and change its
getter to lazy initialize it from the location..?

 - Chris

--- Keith Hodges <keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> In trying to implement MagmaPersistency it turns out that the fact
> that
> PRContext holds a local cache to the current session may be a bit of
> a
> pain. Not only may there be a lot more stuff accidentally persisted
> through this reference, there may actually be objects that magma
> gurus
> say 'don't persist these if you know what is good for you'.
> 
> I cant see that this cache is widely used, so I wondered if anyone
> would
> object if it was removed
> 
> i.e. make this method lookup the current session the hard but not all
> that slow way (about 100 microseconds, on my oldish 700Mhz machine)
> 
> PRContext>>session
> 
> ^ WACurrentSession value
> 
> any thoughts/opinions?
> 
> Keith
> 
> 
> 
> 		
> ___________________________________________________________
> The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email
> address from your Internet provider.
> http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
> _______________________________________________
> Magma mailing list
> Magma at lists.squeakfoundation.org
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/magma
> 
> 
> 


From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Tue Sep 12 08:09:26 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:09:26 +0200
Subject: Context-#session
In-Reply-To: <4504AE43.9080600@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <4502F451.4060700@yahoo.co.uk> <45021FFD.2010909@yahoo.co.uk>
	<66666f210609111533w3e189597p18bcbf0587247242@mail.gmail.com>
	<4504AE43.9080600@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9B6E97B0-207C-407A-B82F-5169BF79D414@iam.unibe.ch>

> In trying to implement MagmaPersistency it turns out that the fact  
> that
> PRContext holds a local cache to the current session may be a bit of a
> pain. Not only may there be a lot more stuff accidentally persisted
> through this reference, there may actually be objects that magma gurus
> say 'don't persist these if you know what is good for you'.

What kind of cache?

There is a reference to the kernel. To the currently browsed  
structure and the currently executed command. Moreover there is a  
time-stamp and an enumerator object. Ideally descriptions on the  
class-side should tell you what fields have to be persistent.

> I cant see that this cache is widely used, so I wondered if anyone  
> would
> object if it was removed

Is it something you added yourself? I am lost :-)

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From philippe.marschall at gmail.com  Tue Sep 12 10:35:55 2006
From: philippe.marschall at gmail.com (Philippe Marschall)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:35:55 +0200
Subject: [Smallwiki] Re: PRKernel instances
In-Reply-To: <4504A090.6080508@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <4502F451.4060700@yahoo.co.uk> <45021FFD.2010909@yahoo.co.uk>
	<66666f210609111533w3e189597p18bcbf0587247242@mail.gmail.com>
	<4504A090.6080508@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <66666f210609120135r1e20057dpe462eeeebad7877f@mail.gmail.com>

2006/9/11, Keith Hodges <keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk>:
> KeyedSets do not have to use a block, if the items respond to #key. Its
> a bit of a hack but in this case all it needs is for PRKernel to
> implement #key.
>
> As for persistence not working with it, surely that has to be a
> limitation of a particular persistence solution.

OmniBase, (Smart) ReferenceStream, Goods, PostgreS all do not support
blocks. Magma does not really and fully support blocks.

Philippe

From cbeler at enit.fr  Tue Sep 12 11:38:45 2006
From: cbeler at enit.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?C=E9drick_B=E9ler?=)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 11:38:45 +0200
Subject: Magritte 2 - Modelisation limits ?
In-Reply-To: <450588A0.6040502@enit.fr>
References: <20060910151949.22501.23038@portail.jacob.univ-savoie.fr>	<C1274534-99D7-4B80-861D-5DFFE5606130@iam.unibe.ch>	<441ADF04-ECD7-4CEE-833C-D2052C1BE26C@iam.unibe.ch>
	<450588A0.6040502@enit.fr>
Message-ID: <45068025.1090000@enit.fr>

Hi

Ok my previous email was not clear, I'll try to shorten it ! Please tell 
me if it's unclear, unrealistic, too complicated...or just stupid ! 
Given the model below, I'd like to discuss some points:

(1) Concerning the link spouse

- Idealy, assigning spouse should be done with an existing instance of 
Person, or with a new created one. Magritte actual version only allows 
to create a new Person (tell me if I'm wrong). I once tried to do a 
variation of MAToOneRelationDescription adding a  repository of existing 
instances). Is it somethink you'd like Magritte to  allow ? According to 
me, having a kind of repository for existing instances in a given 
context should be interesting. What do you think ?

- Also on the same example, assigning a spouse to a person  must assign  
the  opposite (spouse spouse: aPerson) as it's a bidirectionnal 
relation. Is it something you'd like to address (unidirectional and 
bidirectional references) ?

(2) Validation Condition

- It sems to me that MAValidation allow to model unary contraints like 
value of lastName can't be nil, or valid value of marital status are in 
the list #(unmarried married widowed). Bot for more complicated 
constraints (binary, constraints on instances...) it seems impossible to 
me. For instance, if a person maritalStatus is set to unmarried, then 
the person cannot have children (this is the model example ;) ). Would 
you like to allow to model that kind of constraints or is it out of the 
scope of Magritte ? I think this is becoming very complex (CSP field, 
rule based...) especially if we want to do that on the fly but maybe 
doing a check afterwhile could be more realistic...

I stop here and I hope it's a bit clearer at least point (1)... Is it ? 
Do you understand my concern ? If not can you tell me the modeling 
limits of Magritte ? What you want it to be or not...

Thanks you

C?drick


> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>   

From cbeler at enit.fr  Tue Sep 12 11:44:34 2006
From: cbeler at enit.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?C=E9drick_B=E9ler?=)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 11:44:34 +0200
Subject: Magritte 2 - Modelisation limits ?
In-Reply-To: <45068025.1090000@enit.fr>
References: <20060910151949.22501.23038@portail.jacob.univ-savoie.fr>	<C1274534-99D7-4B80-861D-5DFFE5606130@iam.unibe.ch>	<441ADF04-ECD7-4CEE-833C-D2052C1BE26C@iam.unibe.ch>	<450588A0.6040502@enit.fr>
	<45068025.1090000@enit.fr>
Message-ID: <45068182.1020905@enit.fr>



> Given the model below, 
oups... you'll find it here:

http://88.191.19.63/ressources/model/constrainedModel.png

From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Sep 11 14:25:13 2006
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 13:25:13 +0100
Subject: [Smallwiki] Re: Context-#session
In-Reply-To: <9B6E97B0-207C-407A-B82F-5169BF79D414@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <4502F451.4060700@yahoo.co.uk>
	<45021FFD.2010909@yahoo.co.uk>	<66666f210609111533w3e189597p18bcbf0587247242@mail.gmail.com>	<4504AE43.9080600@yahoo.co.uk>
	<9B6E97B0-207C-407A-B82F-5169BF79D414@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <450555A9.5050300@yahoo.co.uk>

Lukas Renggli wrote:
>> In trying to implement MagmaPersistency it turns out that the fact  
>> that
>> PRContext holds a local cache to the current session may be a bit of a
>> pain. Not only may there be a lot more stuff accidentally persisted
>> through this reference, there may actually be objects that magma gurus
>> say 'don't persist these if you know what is good for you'.
>>     
>
> What kind of cache?
>
>   
PRContext>>session
    "Answer the cached seaside session, this is a short-cut to avoid to 
unnecessary lookups."

    ^ self propertyAt: #session ifAbsentPut: [ WACurrentSession value ]

This kind of cache!

Keith

		
___________________________________________________________ 
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com

From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Tue Sep 12 14:31:10 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:31:10 +0200
Subject: [Smallwiki] Re: Context-#session
In-Reply-To: <450555A9.5050300@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <4502F451.4060700@yahoo.co.uk>
	<45021FFD.2010909@yahoo.co.uk>	<66666f210609111533w3e189597p18bcbf0587247242@mail.gmail.com>	<4504AE43.9080600@yahoo.co.uk>
	<9B6E97B0-207C-407A-B82F-5169BF79D414@iam.unibe.ch>
	<450555A9.5050300@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <8C27E6F2-53F2-4DA1-88BD-5217607C21BF@iam.unibe.ch>

>>> In trying to implement MagmaPersistency it turns out that the fact
>>> that
>>> PRContext holds a local cache to the current session may be a bit  
>>> of a
>>> pain. Not only may there be a lot more stuff accidentally persisted
>>> through this reference, there may actually be objects that magma  
>>> gurus
>>> say 'don't persist these if you know what is good for you'.
>>>
>>
>> What kind of cache?
>>
>>
> PRContext>>session
>     "Answer the cached seaside session, this is a short-cut to  
> avoid to
> unnecessary lookups."
>
>     ^ self propertyAt: #session ifAbsentPut: [ WACurrentSession  
> value ]
>
> This kind of cache!

I see, this is not really useful if you use a persistency mechanism  
that dumps out the whole objects. The idea was that Pier knows using  
the description what parts of the objects to serialize, something  
that is probably not easily controllable with a framework using the  
Smalltalk reach-ability to serialize objects.

So I would suggest that you remove this cache.

What's the trouble with MAProxyObject instances?

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From azreal1977 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 12 17:05:06 2006
From: azreal1977 at hotmail.com (J J)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 15:05:06 +0000
Subject: New image map component
Message-ID: <BAY114-F13507EFF28D750825D9515C62B0@phx.gbl>

Hello group,

I am planning to make a new image map component for pier.  Does anyone know 
of anything like this pre-existing?  If not I need a little bit of help:

I want my Image map Pier component to be configured from the settings 
command so I need to know how to use Magritte to build the GUI.  My ideal 
representation (at least that I have thought of so far) would be a 
Dictionary.  For every Coordinate string there is an image string (file 
location) to go with it.  It is a direct one to one, but the two members of 
this relationship are both strings.  And I want them to wind up getting 
added to the dictionary.  My preference would be that the ImageMap component 
has a #addCoord:withImage: method that gets called for each entry.

I did not see how this could be done in Magritte from the tutorials or 
source code.  Anyone got any ideas?

Thanks in advance.



From azreal1977 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 12 17:41:49 2006
From: azreal1977 at hotmail.com (J J)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 15:41:49 +0000
Subject: Image map in pier
Message-ID: <BAY114-F3870F7AB25F48885036C45C62B0@phx.gbl>

Hello group,

I am planning on writting an image map component for Pier.  Has anyone heard 
of someone else doing something like this?

I am assuming no and going ahead and building one. :)  But the problem I am 
having is that I want the component to be configured via the settings 
command from inside Pier.  I need a way, from the settings page, to be able 
to add coordinate->image file pairs.  The logical representation to me seems 
like a dictionary.

I have read all the tutorials I can find, and went through the source code, 
but I don't see how one does in this Magritte.  Can anyone help me out on 
this?

Thanks,
az



From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Tue Sep 12 17:48:01 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 17:48:01 +0200
Subject: New image map component
In-Reply-To: <BAY114-F13507EFF28D750825D9515C62B0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY114-F13507EFF28D750825D9515C62B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <10FAF719-75BB-47C7-A1B5-6D83054FC55A@iam.unibe.ch>

> I am planning to make a new image map component for pier.  Does  
> anyone know
> of anything like this pre-existing?  If not I need a little bit of  
> help:

No, but there are many add-on components available from <http:// 
mc.lukas-renggli.ch/pieraddons.html>. This might be an interesting  
starting point.

> I want my Image map Pier component to be configured from the settings
> command so I need to know how to use Magritte to build the GUI.  My  
> ideal
> representation (at least that I have thought of so far) would be a
> Dictionary.  For every Coordinate string there is an image string  
> (file
> location) to go with it.  It is a direct one to one, but the two  
> members of
> this relationship are both strings.  And I want them to wind up  
> getting
> added to the dictionary.  My preference would be that the ImageMap  
> component
> has a #addCoord:withImage: method that gets called for each entry.

Magritte doesn't know how to add and remove entries from a  
dictionary. Of course, this can be changed, but I think the easiest  
would be the following:

1. Create an Area class with described fields for the coordinate and  
image string (exactly as in the tutorial).

2. Create a subclass of PRStructure with a field to hold the areas.  
Describe the field with something like:

^ (MAToManyRelationDescription selector: #areas label: 'Areas'  
priority: 400 default: OrderedCollection new)
	classes: (OrderedCollection with: Area);
	yourself

That should work (untested).

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Sep 11 17:58:50 2006
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 16:58:50 +0100
Subject: Preloaded Seaside-Magma-Pier 0.9 image
In-Reply-To: <8C27E6F2-53F2-4DA1-88BD-5217607C21BF@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <4502F451.4060700@yahoo.co.uk>	<45021FFD.2010909@yahoo.co.uk>	<66666f210609111533w3e189597p18bcbf0587247242@mail.gmail.com>	<4504AE43.9080600@yahoo.co.uk>	<9B6E97B0-207C-407A-B82F-5169BF79D414@iam.unibe.ch>	<450555A9.5050300@yahoo.co.uk>
	<8C27E6F2-53F2-4DA1-88BD-5217607C21BF@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <450587BA.5050503@yahoo.co.uk>

Latest release of image available at ftp.seasidehosting.st
Username: preloaded password: squeak

Sqk3.8f-smp0.9.image (and changes)

This release supports the logging of changes. I do this by copying the 
useful parts of a PRContext before putting them into the repository and 
when taking them out of the repository copying them again before using 
them. For now this seems to work ok.

Keith

----------------

Welcome to the Seaside Magma Pier preloaded image.
Please send your comments to the magma or pier mailing lists.
----------------------------------------------------------
This release smp 0.9 11thSept2006
First release fully supporting Magma-Pier integration
with history and changes logs.

		
___________________________________________________________ 
Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. "The New Version is radically easier to use" ? The Wall Street Journal 
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Sep 11 18:13:45 2006
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 17:13:45 +0100
Subject: [Smallwiki] Re: Context-#session
In-Reply-To: <8C27E6F2-53F2-4DA1-88BD-5217607C21BF@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <4502F451.4060700@yahoo.co.uk>	<45021FFD.2010909@yahoo.co.uk>	<66666f210609111533w3e189597p18bcbf0587247242@mail.gmail.com>	<4504AE43.9080600@yahoo.co.uk>	<9B6E97B0-207C-407A-B82F-5169BF79D414@iam.unibe.ch>	<450555A9.5050300@yahoo.co.uk>
	<8C27E6F2-53F2-4DA1-88BD-5217607C21BF@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <45058B39.6040109@yahoo.co.uk>


> I see, this is not really useful if you use a persistency mechanism  
> that dumps out the whole objects. The idea was that Pier knows using  
>   
Indeed.

> the description what parts of the objects to serialize, something  
> that is probably not easily controllable with a framework using the  
> Smalltalk reach-ability to serialize objects.
>
> So I would suggest that you remove this cache.
>
>   
It seems that most of the properties in PRContext are not very useful 
when persisted.

My current approach explicitly copies the parts of the object that I 
wish to persist, and so now it is not absolutely necessary to remove 
this cache.  I have removed Pier-Magma's use of this cache, and so it 
remains to see who else actually uses it.
> What's the trouble with MAProxyObject instances?
>
>   
I am not really sure of the ins and outs of this. I think that Magma was 
attempting to serialise part of the PRContext structure at the time. The 
proxy was to an Array of Commands, containing 8 items. Magma was looping 
through them to serialise them and asked for maInstSize which returned 9 
rather than 8, owing to the fact that ProtoObject (i.e MAProxyObject)  
returns maInstSize as (^self class instSize + self basicSize )  
differently to Object. I.e. the call to maInstSize is not being proxied. 
A fix would be to add an explicit maInstSize to MAProxyObject. I suspect 
that it would be worth setting up a test case for this one and to work 
out just what the desired behaviour actually is.

Keith





		
___________________________________________________________ 
The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

From azreal1977 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 12 18:26:20 2006
From: azreal1977 at hotmail.com (J J)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:26:20 +0000
Subject: New image map component
In-Reply-To: <10FAF719-75BB-47C7-A1B5-6D83054FC55A@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <BAY114-F3D9C2D627A7FD4EC83222C62B0@phx.gbl>




>From: Lukas Renggli <renggli at iam.unibe.ch>
>Reply-To: "Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ..." <smallwiki at iam.unibe.ch>
>To: "Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ..." <smallwiki at iam.unibe.ch>
>Subject: Re: New image map component
>Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 17:48:01 +0200
>
>Magritte doesn't know how to add and remove entries from a
>dictionary. Of course, this can be changed, but I think the easiest
>would be the following:
>
><snip>
>
>That should work (untested).
>
>Cheers,
>Lukas

Thanks, I may try that.  But first, is there a way to just add strings in a 
container?  I see there is
a way to remove a set of objects (e.g. the settings on the commands 
component), but can I have like one of those box container displays and 
above it a string and I click add and it goes into the container, and 
therefor the box?



From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Tue Sep 12 19:24:13 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:24:13 +0200
Subject: New image map component
In-Reply-To: <BAY114-F3D9C2D627A7FD4EC83222C62B0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY114-F3D9C2D627A7FD4EC83222C62B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <32C37561-E0DF-49D5-BDF5-91145FFA9374@iam.unibe.ch>

> Thanks, I may try that.  But first, is there a way to just add  
> strings in a
> container?  I see there is a way to remove a set of objects (e.g.  
> the settings on the commands component), but can I have like one of  
> those box container displays and
> above it a string and I click add and it goes into the container, and
> therefor the box?

No, I don't think so, unless you create your own description/editor  
that does exactly what you want.

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From azreal1977 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 12 19:32:55 2006
From: azreal1977 at hotmail.com (J J)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 17:32:55 +0000
Subject: Image link
In-Reply-To: <32C37561-E0DF-49D5-BDF5-91145FFA9374@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <BAY114-F20B60CCF4322AEB358DDC9C62B0@phx.gbl>

Oh a totally unrelated to my last question note:  In pier how does one make 
a picture as a link to an internal page?  I know you can do *My 
text>internal page*, but I didn't see how to do this with an image.

Thanks



From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Tue Sep 12 19:43:19 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:43:19 +0200
Subject: Image link
In-Reply-To: <BAY114-F20B60CCF4322AEB358DDC9C62B0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY114-F20B60CCF4322AEB358DDC9C62B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <D700C268-4001-4EFE-B7CE-011A05753705@iam.unibe.ch>

> Oh a totally unrelated to my last question note:  In pier how does  
> one make
> a picture as a link to an internal page?  I know you can do *My
> text>internal page*, but I didn't see how to do this with an image.

This is not really possible at the moment, however you can mix XHTML  
and the Wiki syntax anywhere in the system as long as you only intend  
to use the pages on the Web.

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From azreal1977 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 12 19:47:42 2006
From: azreal1977 at hotmail.com (J J)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 17:47:42 +0000
Subject: Image link
In-Reply-To: <D700C268-4001-4EFE-B7CE-011A05753705@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <BAY114-F1610B6DF39FF4F7424D086C62B0@phx.gbl>

Yea, that's the problem.  I am converting my wife's band web page to pier, 
and they used team fussion to build it.  It has a lot of pictures that link 
to internal pages, so I have to duplicate all that.  But if there is no way, 
I guess I can just do some CSS tricks. :)


>From: Lukas Renggli <renggli at iam.unibe.ch>
>Reply-To: "Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ..." <smallwiki at iam.unibe.ch>
>To: "Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ..." <smallwiki at iam.unibe.ch>
>Subject: Re: Image link
>Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:43:19 +0200
>
> > Oh a totally unrelated to my last question note:  In pier how does
> > one make
> > a picture as a link to an internal page?  I know you can do *My
> > text>internal page*, but I didn't see how to do this with an image.
>
>This is not really possible at the moment, however you can mix XHTML
>and the Wiki syntax anywhere in the system as long as you only intend
>to use the pages on the Web.
>
>Cheers,
>Lukas
>
>--
>Lukas Renggli
>http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
>https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki



From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Wed Sep 13 09:11:30 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 09:11:30 +0200
Subject: Magritte 2 - Modelisation limits ?
In-Reply-To: <45068025.1090000@enit.fr>
References: <20060910151949.22501.23038@portail.jacob.univ-savoie.fr>	<C1274534-99D7-4B80-861D-5DFFE5606130@iam.unibe.ch>	<441ADF04-ECD7-4CEE-833C-D2052C1BE26C@iam.unibe.ch>
	<450588A0.6040502@enit.fr> <45068025.1090000@enit.fr>
Message-ID: <3AB12D4A-5365-455C-A8F0-9BEE38193D7D@iam.unibe.ch>

> - Also on the same example, assigning a spouse to a person  must  
> assign
> the  opposite (spouse spouse: aPerson) as it's a bidirectionnal
> relation. Is it something you'd like to address (unidirectional and
> bidirectional references) ?

Yeah, this is something that is currently missing. Magritte does not  
work well with cyclic object graphs. You currently have to explicitly  
break and restore the graph at some point.

> - It sems to me that MAValidation allow to model unary contraints like
> value of lastName can't be nil, or valid value of marital status  
> are in
> the list #(unmarried married widowed). Bot for more complicated
> constraints (binary, constraints on instances...) it seems  
> impossible to
> me. For instance, if a person maritalStatus is set to unmarried, then
> the person cannot have children (this is the model example ;) ). Would
> you like to allow to model that kind of constraints or is it out of  
> the
> scope of Magritte ? I think this is becoming very complex (CSP field,
> rule based...) especially if we want to do that on the fly but maybe
> doing a check afterwhile could be more realistic...

It is already possible, you have to add your validation rules to the  
container instead. I agree that the current implementation is not  
that ideal.

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From cbeler at enit.fr  Wed Sep 13 10:30:20 2006
From: cbeler at enit.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?C=E9drick_B=E9ler?=)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:30:20 +0200
Subject: Magritte 2 - Modelisation limits ?
In-Reply-To: <3AB12D4A-5365-455C-A8F0-9BEE38193D7D@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <20060910151949.22501.23038@portail.jacob.univ-savoie.fr>	<C1274534-99D7-4B80-861D-5DFFE5606130@iam.unibe.ch>	<441ADF04-ECD7-4CEE-833C-D2052C1BE26C@iam.unibe.ch>	<450588A0.6040502@enit.fr>
	<45068025.1090000@enit.fr>
	<3AB12D4A-5365-455C-A8F0-9BEE38193D7D@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <4507C19C.5020201@enit.fr>

Hi
>> - Also on the same example, assigning a spouse to a person  must  
>> assign
>> the  opposite (spouse spouse: aPerson) as it's a bidirectionnal
>> relation. Is it something you'd like to address (unidirectional and
>> bidirectional references) ?
>>     
>
> Yeah, this is something that is currently missing. Magritte does not  
> work well with cyclic object graphs. You currently have to explicitly  
> break and restore the graph at some point.
>   

I have no idea how to do that :)...
Is it because of the memento ? For me, memento is about making a copy of 
an object, work on the copy and commit it... but if we need to access 
existing objects in the model (while there are modified), we only have 
the non-modified version... I had a case where I needed that.

What if we directly access the right object after having made a copy of 
it (so we have the possibility to rollback). Can the straight memento 
(pr another one) allow to do that ?

I think a genealogy tree would be a good example to work on and discuss 
(could be fun too :) ). But I think we really miss a kind of repository 
of existing objects. Do you think it's important for the next version of 
Magritte ?
Do you have an idea to do that in a nice 'standard' way ? adding a class 
instance variable ?...

Person

firstName(s) ->list of String descriptions not to be duplicated
lastName ->
sex ->
birthDate ->
deathDate :( ->
/age (ro) ->computed, I think it's ok as far as a coputed value does not 
depend on another object -
dad -> on eligible existing one (sex + diff birthdate) or create a new 
one - plus add itself as a chidren
mum -> same as previous
maritalStatus -> bidirectional + constraint on names (for the example)
spouse -> bidirectional
children -> on eligible existing one or create a new one - plus add 
itself as a parent and the spouse as the other parent (if defined and 
still for the example)

Does a model like that seem realizable ?

>> - It sems to me that MAValidation allow to model unary contraints like
>> value of lastName can't be nil, or valid value of marital status  
>> are in
>> the list #(unmarried married widowed). Bot for more complicated
>> constraints (binary, constraints on instances...) it seems  
>> impossible to
>> me. For instance, if a person maritalStatus is set to unmarried, then
>> the person cannot have children (this is the model example ;) ). Would
>> you like to allow to model that kind of constraints or is it out of  
>> the
>> scope of Magritte ? I think this is becoming very complex (CSP field,
>> rule based...) especially if we want to do that on the fly but maybe
>> doing a check afterwhile could be more realistic...
>>     
>
> It is already possible, you have to add your validation rules to the  
> container instead. I agree that the current implementation is not  
> that ideal.
>   

Oh ok, I wasn't aware of that :) I'll try it...

Thanks for your answers

Ce'drick

From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Wed Sep 13 10:48:20 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:48:20 +0200
Subject: Magritte 2 - Modelisation limits ?
In-Reply-To: <4507C19C.5020201@enit.fr>
References: <20060910151949.22501.23038@portail.jacob.univ-savoie.fr>	<C1274534-99D7-4B80-861D-5DFFE5606130@iam.unibe.ch>	<441ADF04-ECD7-4CEE-833C-D2052C1BE26C@iam.unibe.ch>	<450588A0.6040502@enit.fr>
	<45068025.1090000@enit.fr>
	<3AB12D4A-5365-455C-A8F0-9BEE38193D7D@iam.unibe.ch>
	<4507C19C.5020201@enit.fr>
Message-ID: <380F2789-38DB-4561-95FB-39CBE730DFC8@iam.unibe.ch>

>> Yeah, this is something that is currently missing. Magritte does not
>> work well with cyclic object graphs. You currently have to explicitly
>> break and restore the graph at some point.
>
> I have no idea how to do that :)...

I usually do the following:

- Remove the description that creates cycles from the containers  
before starting the interpreter, for example to displaying the editor.

- Keep the cyclic paths (back-refs) lazily initialized, so that they  
get automatically generated when a new object is added.

> Is it because of the memento ? For me, memento is about making a  
> copy of
> an object, work on the copy and commit it... but if we need to access
> existing objects in the model (while there are modified), we only have
> the non-modified version... I had a case where I needed that.

No this has nothing to do with the memento. The memento is a snapshot  
of a described state. It has more to do with Magritte itself, it is  
not aware of possible recursions, something that I also want to  
enhance in the next version.

> I think a genealogy tree would be a good example to work on and  
> discuss
> (could be fun too :) ). But I think we really miss a kind of  
> repository
> of existing objects. Do you think it's important for the next  
> version of
> Magritte ?

You mean a repository of descriptions?

I tried to avoid this in the current version, because of uniqueness  
and equality of descriptions. If we want to have such a repository we  
need to introduce sort of an UUID for descriptions, I am afraid.

> [...]
>
> Does a model like that seem realizable ?

It is certainly possible, but it might get very complicated. It is a  
good use case for future versions of Magritte ;-)

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From cbeler at enit.fr  Wed Sep 13 11:22:10 2006
From: cbeler at enit.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?C=E9drick_B=E9ler?=)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 11:22:10 +0200
Subject: Magritte 2 - Modelisation limits ?
In-Reply-To: <380F2789-38DB-4561-95FB-39CBE730DFC8@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <20060910151949.22501.23038@portail.jacob.univ-savoie.fr>	<C1274534-99D7-4B80-861D-5DFFE5606130@iam.unibe.ch>	<441ADF04-ECD7-4CEE-833C-D2052C1BE26C@iam.unibe.ch>	<450588A0.6040502@enit.fr>	<45068025.1090000@enit.fr>	<3AB12D4A-5365-455C-A8F0-9BEE38193D7D@iam.unibe.ch>	<4507C19C.5020201@enit.fr>
	<380F2789-38DB-4561-95FB-39CBE730DFC8@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <4507CDC2.3050708@enit.fr>


>
> No this has nothing to do with the memento. The memento is a snapshot  
> of a described state. It has more to do with Magritte itself, it is  
> not aware of possible recursions, something that I also want to  
> enhance in the next version.
>   
cool :)
>   
>> I think a genealogy tree would be a good example to work on and  
>> discuss
>> (could be fun too :) ). But I think we really miss a kind of  
>> repository
>> of existing objects. Do you think it's important for the next  
>> version of
>> Magritte ?
>>     
>
> You mean a repository of descriptions?
no I meant instances of a class that is described. Like for the example 
of a person, what would be a good generic way to acces instances of 
person that exist. This way, when adding a spouse for instance, we can 
choose among the (eligible) instances or create a new one. We can make 
the repository by ourselves I guess but I think that would be good to 
have a kind of accessor strategy for it (saved in the image, in an oodb 
...)...
Does it make sense ?

> It is a good use case for future versions of Magritte ;-)
>   
I think so too ;)

C?drick





From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Sep 14 01:42:41 2006
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 00:42:41 +0100
Subject: MADynamicObject
In-Reply-To: <4507CDC2.3050708@enit.fr>
References: <20060910151949.22501.23038@portail.jacob.univ-savoie.fr>	<C1274534-99D7-4B80-861D-5DFFE5606130@iam.unibe.ch>	<441ADF04-ECD7-4CEE-833C-D2052C1BE26C@iam.unibe.ch>	<450588A0.6040502@enit.fr>	<45068025.1090000@enit.fr>	<3AB12D4A-5365-455C-A8F0-9BEE38193D7D@iam.unibe.ch>	<4507C19C.5020201@enit.fr>	<380F2789-38DB-4561-95FB-39CBE730DFC8@iam.unibe.ch>
	<4507CDC2.3050708@enit.fr>
Message-ID: <45089771.8080304@yahoo.co.uk>

 Dear Lukas,

I am having a look at the implementation of MADynamicObject and I was 
wondering if you could help me by explaining to me how it works!

I can see that MADynamicObject on: [ 123 ]
should assign the BlockContext [123 ] to be the realSubject of the 
MADynamicObject.

What I am failing to understand is at what stage the block is evaluated. 
I can see that whenever a message is sent to the MADynamicObject it is 
being evaluated before the message is sent. I just cant see where the 
code is that does the #value.

thanks in advance

Keith

	
	
		
___________________________________________________________ 
All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine 
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Thu Sep 14 07:05:13 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 07:05:13 +0200
Subject: MADynamicObject
In-Reply-To: <45089771.8080304@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <20060910151949.22501.23038@portail.jacob.univ-savoie.fr>	<C1274534-99D7-4B80-861D-5DFFE5606130@iam.unibe.ch>	<441ADF04-ECD7-4CEE-833C-D2052C1BE26C@iam.unibe.ch>	<450588A0.6040502@enit.fr>	<45068025.1090000@enit.fr>	<3AB12D4A-5365-455C-A8F0-9BEE38193D7D@iam.unibe.ch>	<4507C19C.5020201@enit.fr>	<380F2789-38DB-4561-95FB-39CBE730DFC8@iam.unibe.ch>
	<4507CDC2.3050708@enit.fr> <45089771.8080304@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CDBE25E5-0CEF-455E-B720-9B3D9969A13F@iam.unibe.ch>

Hi Keith,

> I am having a look at the implementation of MADynamicObject and I was
> wondering if you could help me by explaining to me how it works!

It is a bad thing, but very convenient.

> I can see that MADynamicObject on: [ 123 ]
> should assign the BlockContext [123 ] to be the realSubject of the
> MADynamicObject.

It is used to put a calculated value into a variable. Whenever you  
send the first message to it, the block gets evaluated and the  
message is performed on the result. It is sometimes convenient to do  
this, such as for the options of a single-selection description that  
should return a list of currently loaded classes and not a list of  
classes that have been available when the description was cached.

As usual with proxies it creates more troubles than it helps. I have  
some ideas to avoid them altogether in a future version of Magritte.

> What I am failing to understand is at what stage the block is  
> evaluated.
> I can see that whenever a message is sent to the MADynamicObject it is
> being evaluated before the message is sent. I just cant see where the
> code is that does the #value.

What I find strange is that a MADynamicObject is ending up in the  
code to serialize. Actually that should not happen, as these are only  
part of a few descriptions that should remain transient. Can you tell  
me the path of references from the object you serialize to the  
instance of MADynamicObject?

Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Sep 14 16:29:37 2006
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 15:29:37 +0100
Subject: [Smallwiki] Re: MADynamicObject
In-Reply-To: <CDBE25E5-0CEF-455E-B720-9B3D9969A13F@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <20060910151949.22501.23038@portail.jacob.univ-savoie.fr>	<C1274534-99D7-4B80-861D-5DFFE5606130@iam.unibe.ch>	<441ADF04-ECD7-4CEE-833C-D2052C1BE26C@iam.unibe.ch>	<450588A0.6040502@enit.fr>	<45068025.1090000@enit.fr>	<3AB12D4A-5365-455C-A8F0-9BEE38193D7D@iam.unibe.ch>	<4507C19C.5020201@enit.fr>	<380F2789-38DB-4561-95FB-39CBE730DFC8@iam.unibe.ch>	<4507CDC2.3050708@enit.fr>
	<45089771.8080304@yahoo.co.uk>
	<CDBE25E5-0CEF-455E-B720-9B3D9969A13F@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <45096751.2000700@yahoo.co.uk>

about MADynamicObject and serialization.
> It is used to put a calculated value into a variable. Whenever you  
> send the first message to it, the block gets evaluated and the  
>   
This is the bit that I dont understand, I cant see where the 
'evaluation' actually happens. Who does it? Where is the code that says 
'aBlock value'?

>   What I find strange is that a MADynamicObject is ending up in the
> code to serialize. 
Before persisting a PRContext, I was zapping its properties to nil. 
However I had omitted to do the same to the context's command's answer 
context, as in the case of a PRAddCommand. So it was in the dictionary 
of properties, containing references to components that was causing the 
problem. Exactly where WAProxyObject is in there I am not quite sure 
since I never got a proper debugger up on it. The 
PRCommandAdd-structureClasses appeared to be the one causing trouble, 
i.e. a reference to this dynamic object is contained in one of the 
components.
----
So now Pier-Magma is looking good to go. My main objective was to be 
able to have the Pier data persisted outside of the image so that an 
'upgrade' of the image would be straightforward.

There are (at least) two more issues to consider if Magma-Pier is to be 
a tour-de-force.

1) At the moment pier-magma marks objects for rematerialisation as 
needed, one-by-one. Magma can be configured for different 
read-strategies, so performance could be greatly increased (so I am 
told) if the read strategy re-materialised on a page-by-page or 
kernel-by-kernel basis (for a multi kernel site).

2) Using a non-shared MagmaSession takes time to get the initial session 
on the database (it could hold a cached session ready in order to 
improve this), but when the session is expired the objects may be free 
to be purged from the image. (Thinking about it I suspect that this will 
not happen automatically with my current implementation, but it should)

My current preferred approach is to use a shared MagmaSession where 
there is only one MagmaSession for all the seaside sessions. Effectively 
this caches every used object in memory, and the opportunity for 
allowing objects to be purged/gc'd is less clear. I am assuming that 
Magma doesnt do an explicit purge, but relies upon the application to 
'let go' of unneeded objects for gc to tidy up.

Keith

 

		
___________________________________________________________ 
Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. "The New Version is radically easier to use" ? The Wall Street Journal 
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Thu Sep 14 18:11:39 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 18:11:39 +0200
Subject: [Smallwiki] Re: MADynamicObject
In-Reply-To: <45096751.2000700@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <20060910151949.22501.23038@portail.jacob.univ-savoie.fr>	<C1274534-99D7-4B80-861D-5DFFE5606130@iam.unibe.ch>	<441ADF04-ECD7-4CEE-833C-D2052C1BE26C@iam.unibe.ch>	<450588A0.6040502@enit.fr>	<45068025.1090000@enit.fr>	<3AB12D4A-5365-455C-A8F0-9BEE38193D7D@iam.unibe.ch>	<4507C19C.5020201@enit.fr>	<380F2789-38DB-4561-95FB-39CBE730DFC8@iam.unibe.ch>	<4507CDC2.3050708@enit.fr>
	<45089771.8080304@yahoo.co.uk>
	<CDBE25E5-0CEF-455E-B720-9B3D9969A13F@iam.unibe.ch>
	<45096751.2000700@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <0DCE908C-6E45-4968-AA82-2147E97C6A2D@iam.unibe.ch>

> about MADynamicObject and serialization.
>> It is used to put a calculated value into a variable. Whenever you
>> send the first message to it, the block gets evaluated and the
>>
> This is the bit that I dont understand, I cant see where the
> 'evaluation' actually happens. Who does it? Where is the code that  
> says
> 'aBlock value'?

#doesNotUnderstand: is implemented in the superclass. It then calls  
#realSubject what is implemented like this:

realSubject
	^ super realSubject on: UnhandledError do: [ :err | nil ]

#on:do: evaluates the block which is returned by the super-call to  
#realSubject. Also see the tests.

> However I had omitted to do the same to the context's command's answer
> context, as in the case of a PRAddCommand. So it was in the dictionary
> of properties, containing references to components that was causing  
> the
> problem. Exactly where WAProxyObject is in there I am not quite sure
> since I never got a proper debugger up on it. The
> PRCommandAdd-structureClasses appeared to be the one causing trouble,
> i.e. a reference to this dynamic object is contained in one of the
> components.

Yes, you don't need the answer context. That can be rebuilt if  
necessary.

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Sep 15 17:40:26 2006
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 16:40:26 +0100
Subject: [ANN] Pier-ScriptingAPI
Message-ID: <450AC96A.70509@yahoo.co.uk>

I have uploaded a first release of a scriptingAPI for pier.

The aim at this stage is to provide a platform for importing data and 
hence some scalability testing with pier-magma.

There are three classes which implement the same API.
a) PRModelScripter - direct operations on the model
b) PRCommandScripter - operations via the command interface (logging 
optional)
c) PRCommandAppScripter - as b) but run in the context of the registered 
application including logging (optional) and persistency.

For Data importing PRPierifyToPage provides an abstract class for 
loading data from a target object into a pier page.
Example  of use:

(PRPierifySmalltalkClass target: Object into: (PRCommandAppScripter 
onKernelNamed:'pier')

So to create a persisted Pier kernel with 5000+ pages, one every 10 seconds.
Create a persisted kernel named 'Squeak'  using the  Magma Control Panel 
GUI. Then run.

PRPierifySmalltalkClass pace: 10.
PRPierifySmalltalkClass exampleProtoObject.
[ PRPierifySmalltalkClass exampleAllClasses ] forkAt: 15.

feedback welcome

Keith





	
	
		
___________________________________________________________ 
All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine 
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

From ducasse at iam.unibe.ch  Fri Sep 15 19:42:31 2006
From: ducasse at iam.unibe.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?st=E9phane_ducasse?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 19:42:31 +0200
Subject: [ANN] Pier-ScriptingAPI
In-Reply-To: <450AC96A.70509@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <450AC96A.70509@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B4E8BA5C-147A-449E-A068-6C0AD5811994@iam.unibe.ch>

Hi keith

can you explain a bit what are the scripter?

I was thinking that with the command we could have people building  
user interface for Wiki admin
but I guess that this is something different


> I have uploaded a first release of a scriptingAPI for pier.
>
> The aim at this stage is to provide a platform for importing data and
> hence some scalability testing with pier-magma.
>
> There are three classes which implement the same API.
> a) PRModelScripter - direct operations on the model
> b) PRCommandScripter - operations via the command interface (logging
> optional)
> c) PRCommandAppScripter - as b) but run in the context of the  
> registered
> application including logging (optional) and persistency.
>
> For Data importing PRPierifyToPage provides an abstract class for
> loading data from a target object into a pier page.
> Example  of use:
>
> (PRPierifySmalltalkClass target: Object into: (PRCommandAppScripter
> onKernelNamed:'pier')
>
> So to create a persisted Pier kernel with 5000+ pages, one every 10  
> seconds.
> Create a persisted kernel named 'Squeak'  using the  Magma Control  
> Panel
> GUI. Then run.
>
> PRPierifySmalltalkClass pace: 10.
> PRPierifySmalltalkClass exampleProtoObject.
> [ PRPierifySmalltalkClass exampleAllClasses ] forkAt: 15.
>
> feedback welcome
>
> Keith
>
>
>
>
>
> 	
> 	
> 		
> ___________________________________________________________
> All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its  
> simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine
> http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki


From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Sep 16 02:36:09 2006
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 01:36:09 +0100
Subject: [Smallwiki] [ANN] Pier-ScriptingAPI
In-Reply-To: <450AC96A.70509@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <450AC96A.70509@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <450B46F9.2030604@yahoo.co.uk>

Stefan,

The scripters aim to provide a simple programmatic interface to pier.

So far I have implemented.

aScripter addPageAt: '/Pier/User' name: 'Keith'.
aScripter addPageAt: '/Pier/User' name: 'Keith' contents: '!!Keith''s Page'.
aScripter removePageAt: '/Pier/User/Bob'.

In the scripters you can pass a path or the real thing.

| newPage |
aScripter addPageAt: '/Pier/User' name: 'Keith' contents: '*my cv*'.
aScripter addPageAt: newPage name: 'my cv' contents: 'chief cook and 
bottle washer'.

While not a comprehensive api, it is enough to begin importing some data.

The MagmaControlPanel provides a simple UI for adding, deleting and 
persisting kernels. Sufficient to fully control a remote installation 
from a web browser. Though I haven't tried it without Magma actually 
installed to know if it would be more generally useful.

Once I am happy with the magma stuff I will be turning my attention to 
the Environment and aim to make some admin components for use within the 
environment. I have already implemented full stylesheet control and a 
password editor and user/groups editor. Which are designed to be 
available within the Environment for the site.

best regards

Keith



		
___________________________________________________________ 
The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Sep 16 03:21:59 2006
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 02:21:59 +0100
Subject: [Smallwiki] [ANN] Pier-ScriptingAPI (errata)
In-Reply-To: <450AC96A.70509@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <450AC96A.70509@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <450B51B7.1070702@yahoo.co.uk>

Stefan,

The scripters aim to provide a simple programmatic interface to pier.

So far I have implemented.

aScripter addPageAt: '/Pier/User' name: 'Keith'.
aScripter addPageAt: '/Pier/User' name: 'Keith' contents: '!!Keith''s Page'.
aScripter removePageAt: '/Pier/User/Bob'.

In the scripters you can pass a path or the real thing.

| newPage |
newPage := aScripter addPageAt: '/Pier/User' name: 'Keith' contents: 
'*my cv*'.
aScripter addPageAt: newPage name: 'my cv' contents: 'chief cook and
bottle washer'.

While not a comprehensive api, it is enough to begin importing some data.

The MagmaControlPanel provides a simple UI for adding, deleting and
persisting kernels. Sufficient to fully control a remote installation
from a web browser. Though I haven't tried it without Magma actually
installed to know if it would be more generally useful.

Once I am happy with the magma stuff I will be turning my attention to
the Environment and aim to make some admin components for use within the
environment. I have already implemented full stylesheet control and a
password editor and user/groups editor. Which are designed to be
available within the Environment for the site.

best regards

Keith



		
___________________________________________________________
The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address 
from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

_______________________________________________
SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
_______________________________________________
Smallwiki mailing list
Smallwiki at impara.de
http://impara.de/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki


		
___________________________________________________________ 
The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Sep 16 04:18:22 2006
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 03:18:22 +0100
Subject: Testing pier-magma
Message-ID: <450B5EEE.90204@yahoo.co.uk>

Findings so far.

I have persisted 248 pages so far (a far cry from the promised 5000!) 
but I am doing so slowly.

Magma reports 84818 objects from aRepositoryController objectCount.
That is an average of 342 objects per page. Although Pier pages do 
contain a lot of objects to describe what most wiki's store in a single 
string. 342 seems to be quite a lot.

Disk usage is 3Mb for 250 pages which is 12k per page, i.e. 60Mb for a 
site of 5000 pages with one page generated per Squeak class.

So I opened an explorer on the repository and took a look at a simple page.
The page generated for Squeak class 'Password' seemed to be quite 
typical, not too large. (I didn't even know squeak had a class called 
Password).

The page consists of headings, the class comment, a list of subclasses 
(Password has none)
an unordered list of instance methods each being a [broken] link (i.e. 
pages for individual methods have not been filled in) and a similar 
unordered list of class methods.

Counting objects in the repository explorer I get approximately 102 
unique Objects, 50 nil's, and 8 object references. Just for one page! 
160 Objects that I can explicitly count, I am not sure what Magma is 
doing behind the scenes in terms of overhead.

The only thing that I can see that could be optimised is the appearance 
of 9 empty arrays ( #decoration and #children ) which could be lazily 
initialialized. I doubt if it is worth doing what is the overhead of 
storing an empty array, as opposed to nil?

Keith









		
___________________________________________________________ 
Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. "The New Version is radically easier to use" ? The Wall Street Journal 
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Sep 16 04:33:26 2006
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 03:33:26 +0100
Subject: Scalability: Tree view strugging
Message-ID: <450B6276.8070603@yahoo.co.uk>

In my first scalability run, the tree view widget is struggling to 
handle 250 pages. Particularly since it appears to display with all 
leaves open by default.

Keith



	
	
		
___________________________________________________________ 
Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

From ducasse at iam.unibe.ch  Sat Sep 16 09:36:44 2006
From: ducasse at iam.unibe.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?st=E9phane_ducasse?=)
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 09:36:44 +0200
Subject: [Smallwiki] [ANN] Pier-ScriptingAPI (errata)
In-Reply-To: <450B51B7.1070702@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <450AC96A.70509@yahoo.co.uk> <450B51B7.1070702@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5C367A54-12CF-4FBD-86AB-FBE9DAD62018@iam.unibe.ch>

sounds cool.


On 16 sept. 06, at 03:21, Keith Hodges wrote:

> Stefan,
>
> The scripters aim to provide a simple programmatic interface to pier.
>
> So far I have implemented.
>
> aScripter addPageAt: '/Pier/User' name: 'Keith'.
> aScripter addPageAt: '/Pier/User' name: 'Keith' contents: '!! 
> Keith''s Page'.
> aScripter removePageAt: '/Pier/User/Bob'.
>
> In the scripters you can pass a path or the real thing.
>
> | newPage |
> newPage := aScripter addPageAt: '/Pier/User' name: 'Keith' contents:
> '*my cv*'.
> aScripter addPageAt: newPage name: 'my cv' contents: 'chief cook and
> bottle washer'.
>
> While not a comprehensive api, it is enough to begin importing some  
> data.
>
> The MagmaControlPanel provides a simple UI for adding, deleting and
> persisting kernels. Sufficient to fully control a remote installation
> from a web browser. Though I haven't tried it without Magma actually
> installed to know if it would be more generally useful.
>
> Once I am happy with the magma stuff I will be turning my attention to
> the Environment and aim to make some admin components for use  
> within the
> environment. I have already implemented full stylesheet control and a
> password editor and user/groups editor. Which are designed to be
> available within the Environment for the site.

Sounds exciting to me.
I always thought that once we have command we could even let the  
admin be able to write

under Page all links = dead (nromally we can do that with the search  
engine)

and then do

(all links = dead) do: action :)

>
> best regards
>
> Keith
>
>
>
> 		
> ___________________________________________________________
> The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address
> from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
> _______________________________________________
> Smallwiki mailing list
> Smallwiki at impara.de
> http://impara.de/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>
>
> 		
> ___________________________________________________________
> The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email  
> address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/ 
> nowyoucan.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki


From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Sep 16 11:47:09 2006
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 10:47:09 +0100
Subject: [Smallwiki] Scalability: Tree view strugging
In-Reply-To: <450B6276.8070603@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <450B6276.8070603@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <450BC81D.2020507@yahoo.co.uk>

Keith Hodges wrote:
> In my first scalability run, the tree view widget is struggling to 
> handle 250 pages. Particularly since it appears to display with all 
> leaves open by default.
>
> Keith
>   
Not all leaves, but at least every link on the page being viewed seems 
to be open.
 Which is quite a few.

Keith

		
___________________________________________________________ 
Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. "The New Version is radically easier to use" ? The Wall Street Journal 
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Sun Sep 17 10:31:36 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 10:31:36 +0200
Subject: Scalability: Tree view strugging
In-Reply-To: <450B6276.8070603@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <450B6276.8070603@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9DF451FB-6AB8-4D1D-AD05-EC86EBBA7E4A@iam.unibe.ch>

> In my first scalability run, the tree view widget is struggling to
> handle 250 pages. Particularly since it appears to display with all
> leaves open by default.

I think there are settings to change this behavior from the Web.

Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From patrickdlogan at stardecisions.com  Mon Sep 18 18:25:57 2006
From: patrickdlogan at stardecisions.com (Patrick D. Logan)
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 12:25:57 -0400
Subject: Getting started with Pier and Seaside apps
Message-ID: <1158596756.12458@stardecisions.com>

I am just getting started with Magritte and/or Pier. The goal is to edit some fairly lengthy form-like objects: people, property, and transactions involving those things.

not knowing much this feels very Pier-like, with each of these created in a form-based editor and links among them.

On the transaction side there is a need to send subsets of these things off to other sites and systems, and then create new related things from the results, e.g. "proposals" and so on.

So as I understand the tools, Magritte would be good to describe these things and Seaside would be good for the transactional user interfaces. Just HTTP and HTTPS would be used on the back end of the transactions.

How well would Pier fit in here? i.e. creating the objects in Pier and then having some Seaside and other code refer to those objects, formatting them for HTTP methods.

On the back end of the transactions I'd want to parse the incoming information and create Pier objects from those.

Reasonable? Easy? Any suggesttions?

Thanks,
Patrick

From dpp at athena.com  Mon Sep 18 22:17:31 2006
From: dpp at athena.com (David Pollak)
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 13:17:31 -0700
Subject: [ANN] UI for managing Pier users
Message-ID: <6D3A8326-7EE6-4CFB-BE13-C1B3873024F5@athena.com>

Howdy,

I have released the first version of a Web-based UI for creating,  
editing, and removing user from Pier (based on Lukas Renggli's Pier- 
Security package.)

The project is available at:
http://www.squeaksource.com/PierSecurityManager.html

This is my first Smalltalk program and I'd welcome feedback on the  
code.  Specifically, I'm coming to Smalltalk via Ruby, Java, C++, and  
Objective-C.  I am very sure I haven't found my "Smalltalk voice" and  
help in improving my Smalltalk idioms would be greatly appreciated.

Also, I am looking for a way to write tests for the code.  Because  
much of the code is based on Seaside/Magritte callbacks, it seems  
difficult to test the code without being able to simulate these  
calls.  Any pointers to testing would be appreciated.

Thanks,

David



From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Mon Sep 18 23:15:42 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 23:15:42 +0200
Subject: Getting started with Pier and Seaside apps
In-Reply-To: <1158596756.12458@stardecisions.com>
References: <1158596756.12458@stardecisions.com>
Message-ID: <568F2EEB-F952-4F6F-95B5-F6AB6A55A8B2@iam.unibe.ch>

Welcome Patrick,

> I am just getting started with Magritte and/or Pier. The goal is to  
> edit some fairly lengthy form-like objects: people, property, and  
> transactions involving those things.
>
> not knowing much this feels very Pier-like, with each of these  
> created in a form-based editor and links among them.

this sounds like something reasonable to do with Magritte/Pier.

> On the transaction side there is a need to send subsets of these  
> things off to other sites and systems, and then create new related  
> things from the results, e.g. "proposals" and so on.
>
> So as I understand the tools, Magritte would be good to describe  
> these things and Seaside would be good for the transactional user  
> interfaces. Just HTTP and HTTPS would be used on the back end of  
> the transactions.

For the server side there is only HTTP natively supported by Squeak,  
however you can easily do HTTPS by proxying trough an Apache server.  
The same for the client slide, Squeak does only HTTP, however there  
is a lipCurl plugin coming that will make HTTPS access possible as well.

> How well would Pier fit in here? i.e. creating the objects in Pier  
> and then having some Seaside and other code refer to those objects,  
> formatting them for HTTP methods.

Seaside is an abstraction over HTTP/HTML, there is not much of these  
low-level protocols that you actually see while working with this  
framework. Pier is again another layer of abstraction on top of that.  
Of course you always have the possibility to go as deep down to the  
basic protocols as you like, however this is not the aim of Seaside  
and Pier.

> On the back end of the transactions I'd want to parse the incoming  
> information and create Pier objects from those.

Sounds reasonable and fairly simple to do. The parsing will be  
probably the most difficult thing ;-)

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From patrickdlogan at stardecisions.com  Mon Sep 18 23:43:13 2006
From: patrickdlogan at stardecisions.com (Patrick D. Logan)
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 17:43:13 -0400
Subject: Getting started with Pier and Seaside apps
Message-ID: <1158615792.13927@stardecisions.com>

Lukas Renggli wrote ..
> 
> Sounds reasonable and fairly simple to do...

Thanks Lukas for the information. I'll dive in and see where it goes.

-Patrick

From patrickdlogan at stardecisions.com  Tue Sep 19 01:44:32 2006
From: patrickdlogan at stardecisions.com (Patrick D. Logan)
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 19:44:32 -0400
Subject: Pier and Forms
Message-ID: <1158623071.14623@stardecisions.com>

I need some clarification on forms in Pier. From a search I get the impression that the forms code is already in the Pier source. I installed whatever is in SqueakMap but unless I'm overlooking it, I don't think the forms code is installed with the Pier install. I also don't see how to start using forms from the Pier user interface, so more evidence it may be absent.

What's the "official" word before I start keyboarding the code myself?

Thanks,
Patrick

From patrickdlogan at stardecisions.com  Tue Sep 19 01:50:46 2006
From: patrickdlogan at stardecisions.com (Patrick D. Logan)
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 19:50:46 -0400
Subject: Pier and Forms
Message-ID: <1158623446.14698@stardecisions.com>

Oh. Just found an August email from Lukas...

So perhaps to use forms we point to the forms code on his site...

http://mc.lukas-renggli.ch/pier/

I'll try it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks,
Patrick


========

I need some clarification on forms in Pier. From a search I get the impression that the forms code is already in the Pier source. I installed whatever is in SqueakMap but unless I'm overlooking it, I don't think the forms code is installed with the Pier install. I also don't see how to start using forms from the Pier user interface, so more evidence it may be absent.

What's the "official" word before I start keyboarding the code myself?

Thanks,
Patrick

From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Tue Sep 19 06:23:11 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 06:23:11 +0200
Subject: Pier and Forms
In-Reply-To: <1158623446.14698@stardecisions.com>
References: <1158623446.14698@stardecisions.com>
Message-ID: <90CDF0C3-50C2-4BA7-9075-92AAC66C452F@iam.unibe.ch>

> So perhaps to use forms we point to the forms code on his site...
>
> http://mc.lukas-renggli.ch/pier/

Yep, load Pier-Forms from this repository.

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Sep 21 07:50:08 2006
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 06:50:08 +0100
Subject: Magma + Pier performance
In-Reply-To: <20060921020527.15921.qmail@web31811.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060921020527.15921.qmail@web31811.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <45122810.3010106@yahoo.co.uk>

Following Chris' advice to implement a read strategy, I thought I would 
give it a go.

In the first stages of optimising Magma to serve pier pages.

the figures are pretty bad without a readStrategy. I put a test 
'information' page page 10 levels down the url path, and following a 
rendering of that page we get the last item in the log at:

*401 [14141] Read(100) *'<b>Test Suites:</b> Pier is heavily tested. 
There are more than 1000 ...etc...
*402 [14147] Read(101) *'</td></tr></table>'

That is 101 proxy materialisations in 14.1 seconds. If you add the 10 
seconds that it takes to obtain a MagmaSession (in the non-shared 
WAMagmaSession) then that is a long time to wait for a web page. 
(WAMagmaSharedSession is pre-cached).

not so good!

After carefully  implementing a readStrategy

The final lines of the log now look like this!

*312 [311] Read(3) *a PRDocument
...
...
*367: [335] (7/7/8) PRText-text = '<b>Test Suites:</b> Pier is heavily 
tes...etc...*
 

That is 3 reads, which take ~30-80ms to apply the read strategy and 
~100ms to fetch from magma, each. Since the final read has not actually 
happened at the time of this last log item, I make that roughly 430ms to 
retrieve everything in this test page.

The first read retrieves the whole path skeleton in one hit (not 
entirely necessary)
The second read retrieves the 'environment' document which pier uses as 
its display and style template. The third read retrieves the desired 
document, again in one hit.

In practice it is likely that the 'path skeleton' and the 'environment'  
will remain cached in memory,  so in general use,  100-150ms, to  serve 
a page from Magma to Pier isnt bad going especially as compared to the 
non-optimised results.

Keith

p.s. this is on a 700Mhz Pentium 3 machine with old slow 10G disk drives.
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/pipermail/smallwiki/attachments/20060921/a1599e0f/attachment.html

From philippe.marschall at gmail.com  Thu Sep 21 23:16:55 2006
From: philippe.marschall at gmail.com (Philippe Marschall)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 23:16:55 +0200
Subject: Pier structure inspector icons
Message-ID: <66666f210609211416qe034cf7l444ca605297be6a3@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

I hope this qualifies for cool-pier-feature-of-the-day:

Recent versions of Pier show the icon of a structure in the inspector.
See attached screenshot. In case it got blocked see:
http://img371.imageshack.us/my.php?image=inspectoriconsdp9.png


Philippe
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: inspector_icons.png
Type: image/png
Size: 24610 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.iam.unibe.ch/pipermail/smallwiki/attachments/20060921/7fca10b3/inspector_icons-0001.png

From damien.cassou at laposte.net  Fri Sep 22 10:09:27 2006
From: damien.cassou at laposte.net (Damien Cassou)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:09:27 +0200
Subject: Pier structure inspector icons
In-Reply-To: <66666f210609211416qe034cf7l444ca605297be6a3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <66666f210609211416qe034cf7l444ca605297be6a3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45139A37.1070209@laposte.net>

Philippe Marschall a ?crit :
> Hi
> 
> I hope this qualifies for cool-pier-feature-of-the-day:
> 
> Recent versions of Pier show the icon of a structure in the inspector.
> See attached screenshot. In case it got blocked see:
> http://img371.imageshack.us/my.php?image=inspectoriconsdp9.png

Very cool Philippe :-)

-- 
Damien Cassou


From ducasse at iam.unibe.ch  Fri Sep 22 13:02:37 2006
From: ducasse at iam.unibe.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?st=E9phane_ducasse?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 13:02:37 +0200
Subject: Pier structure inspector icons
In-Reply-To: <66666f210609211416qe034cf7l444ca605297be6a3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <66666f210609211416qe034cf7l444ca605297be6a3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9AE7FDEC-B3E5-4199-A421-29A3789ABF6C@iam.unibe.ch>

sweet....

On 21 sept. 06, at 23:16, Philippe Marschall wrote:

> Hi
>
> I hope this qualifies for cool-pier-feature-of-the-day:
>
> Recent versions of Pier show the icon of a structure in the inspector.
> See attached screenshot. In case it got blocked see:
> http://img371.imageshack.us/my.php?image=inspectoriconsdp9.png
>
>
> Philippe
> <inspector_icons.png>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki


From bakki.kudva at gmail.com  Fri Sep 22 19:18:59 2006
From: bakki.kudva at gmail.com (Bakki Kudva)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 13:18:59 -0400
Subject: Pier structure inspector icons
In-Reply-To: <66666f210609211416qe034cf7l444ca605297be6a3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <66666f210609211416qe034cf7l444ca605297be6a3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f7f43c920609221018rc3de17dta6b4b2ff3e546e2b@mail.gmail.com>

How can I customize WATree with icons in seaside without pier? I've
been scratching my newbie head over this. I'd like to add folder icons
for a document browser.

-bakki

On 9/21/06, Philippe Marschall <philippe.marschall at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
> I hope this qualifies for cool-pier-feature-of-the-day:
>
> Recent versions of Pier show the icon of a structure in the inspector.
> See attached screenshot. In case it got blocked see:
> http://img371.imageshack.us/my.php?image=inspectoriconsdp9.png
>
>
> Philippe
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>
>
>

From philippe.marschall at gmail.com  Sat Sep 23 14:23:35 2006
From: philippe.marschall at gmail.com (Philippe Marschall)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 14:23:35 +0200
Subject: Pier structure inspector icons
In-Reply-To: <f7f43c920609221018rc3de17dta6b4b2ff3e546e2b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <66666f210609211416qe034cf7l444ca605297be6a3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f7f43c920609221018rc3de17dta6b4b2ff3e546e2b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <66666f210609230523k6c2c279dv85ebf909ac7df8fc@mail.gmail.com>

It's best to ask such questions on the seaside mailing list.

Icons for WATree are currently not supported. You have to implement it
yourself. Subclass WATrree, add iconBlock or something like that.

Philippe

2006/9/22, Bakki Kudva <bakki.kudva at gmail.com>:
> How can I customize WATree with icons in seaside without pier? I've
> been scratching my newbie head over this. I'd like to add folder icons
> for a document browser.
>
> -bakki
>
> On 9/21/06, Philippe Marschall <philippe.marschall at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > I hope this qualifies for cool-pier-feature-of-the-day:
> >
> > Recent versions of Pier show the icon of a structure in the inspector.
> > See attached screenshot. In case it got blocked see:
> > http://img371.imageshack.us/my.php?image=inspectoriconsdp9.png
> >
> >
> > Philippe
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
> >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>

From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Sep 24 02:59:40 2006
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 01:59:40 +0100
Subject: Accessors to children
Message-ID: <4515D87C.1060002@yahoo.co.uk>

Lukas,

When PRChildren is empty, I am getting uneccessary database accesses at 
every leaf node. I am sure that there are several ways of solving this 
but for now I am experimenting in my image with...

PRStructure>>#childrenDecoration removed

and an access interface defined for children...

#addChild:
#childAt:
#childAt:ifAbsent:
#childAt:ifPresent:
#childrenIncludes:
#removeChild:

Such that if there are no children then no PRChildren decoration is 
added into the structure's decorations.

would this change be acceptable?

Keith




	
	
		
___________________________________________________________ 
All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine 
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Sun Sep 24 09:32:20 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 09:32:20 +0200
Subject: Pier structure inspector icons
In-Reply-To: <66666f210609230523k6c2c279dv85ebf909ac7df8fc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <66666f210609211416qe034cf7l444ca605297be6a3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f7f43c920609221018rc3de17dta6b4b2ff3e546e2b@mail.gmail.com>
	<66666f210609230523k6c2c279dv85ebf909ac7df8fc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <372A7DD0-ED32-4D5A-B9D7-9DB3949BD550@iam.unibe.ch>

> It's best to ask such questions on the seaside mailing list.
>
> Icons for WATree are currently not supported. You have to implement it
> yourself. Subclass WATrree, add iconBlock or something like that.

I think the WATree that Pier is using supports icons, no? You just  
have to enable them from the settings in the Web.

The WATree in Seaside is a port of the Tree in Pier, but without Pier  
specific things such as icons. I think you can easily put back in the  
support for icons, if you need.

Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Sun Sep 24 09:46:02 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 09:46:02 +0200
Subject: Accessors to children
In-Reply-To: <4515D87C.1060002@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <4515D87C.1060002@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <0BD046D4-DFFA-4817-A9D7-E771A037C255@iam.unibe.ch>

Hi Keith,

> When PRChildren is empty, I am getting uneccessary database  
> accesses at
> every leaf node. I am sure that there are several ways of solving this
> but for now I am experimenting in my image with...

I wonder where from these children are accessed? No part of the code  
should directly access the children of a structure, but instead walk  
over them using a visitor. Of course, I might have missed something ...

> PRStructure>>#childrenDecoration removed

Note that subclasses of PRStructure might override  
#childrenDecorationClass to use a completely different decoration for  
children.

> and an access interface defined for children...
>
> #addChild:
> #childAt:
> #childAt:ifAbsent:
> #childAt:ifPresent:
> #childrenIncludes:
> #removeChild:

I don't see why this would help. As far as I see none of my code uses  
any of this functionality directly.

> Such that if there are no children then no PRChildren decoration is
> added into the structure's decorations.

I don't have many accessors of childrenDecoration in my image, except  
for the tests. Where/When are unnecessary decorations created?

> would this change be acceptable?

It is not the way Pier is designed. Compared to SmallWiki I wanted to  
factor out all the behavior related to children to a different  
(pluggable) object.

Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Sun Sep 24 10:06:32 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 10:06:32 +0200
Subject: Seaside, Magritte, and Pier
In-Reply-To: <FA464F15-DDB5-401C-B0FE-82F12B967DB9@fairmontgroup.com>
References: <FA464F15-DDB5-401C-B0FE-82F12B967DB9@fairmontgroup.com>
Message-ID: <97EF1210-18CE-4BD8-8913-253D5474D07A@iam.unibe.ch>

Hi,

> I'm relatively new to Squeak, but discovered the framework you have  
> built, and it appears to be useful for a project I'm working on.   
> Documentation is very sparse, however, and I would like to  
> volunteer to assist in developing further documentation.  As a  
> matter of fact, I believe Pier might be the basis for the  
> documentation.  I would also like to do several screencasts to  
> illustrate the documentation in a tutorial fashion.  I know some of  
> your time will be required to guide me and review the  
> documentation, but if you would consider my offer, I believe it  
> might lead to wider usage of Seaside/Magritte/Pier..

sounds like an interesting project. Depending on what kind of  
documentation you would like to build it could be a good match. The  
documentation you find in the appendix of my master thesis [1] has  
been generated from class and method comments using Pier and exported  
as Latex. One could also build a Pier Web site.

I would suggest that you subscribe to the Pier mailing-list at [2]  
and ask further questions there.

Cheers,
Lukas

[1] http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/Archive/Diploma/Reng06a.pdf
[2] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Sep 24 18:00:22 2006
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 17:00:22 +0100
Subject: Accessors to children
In-Reply-To: <0BD046D4-DFFA-4817-A9D7-E771A037C255@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <4515D87C.1060002@yahoo.co.uk>
	<0BD046D4-DFFA-4817-A9D7-E771A037C255@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <4516AB96.2090508@yahoo.co.uk>

Lukas,

To clarify for you, the extra database accesses are because when the 
database accesses a PRDecorated node it loads the decorations in. Then 
seeing that PRChildren is present it generates a second access to get 
the contents of PRChildren only to find that it is empty. This is extra 
work (and time) for no net purpose.

At the moment the problem is that many operations that involve children 
are doing so via PRStructure-#childrenDecoration whose default behaviour 
is to add an empty PRChildren instance to its decorations even if it is 
not actually needed.

To be honest I love the clean design, even with empty PRChildren 
instances. It's just a shame when pragmatic considerations mess with our 
nice designs. Since I indicated that there are other ways of solving 
this problem I will list a few below.

I constructed the children-accessing interface in order to satisfy the 
needs of the users of #childrenDecoration which are primarily the 
commands and the tests. Specifically:

PRCommand-#validateName: aString of: aChildStructure in: aStructure
PRCommand-#uniqueName: aString in: aStructure

PRChangeEnvironmentCommand-#doExecute
PRAddCommand-#doExecute
PRCopyCommand-#doExecute
PRMoveCommand-#doExecute
PRStructure-#remove

Solution Options:

1. child-accessing interface as discussed.

2. Magma before serializing any PRDecorated looks to see if there are 
any empty PRChildren and removes them before writing to its buffers. [ I 
think that this will work , though I am not 100% certain, but then we 
have PRChildren being created and destroyed over and over.]

3. Use an interface such as

aStructure withChildren: [ :children |  children add: ( aNewPage ) ]
where #withChildren: cleans up afterwards.

4. Rewrite the commands above to use some form of visitor as you suggest 
below:
                                     
>
> I wonder where from these children are accessed? No part of the code  
> should directly access the children of a structure, but instead walk  
> over them using a visitor. Of course, I might have missed something ...
>  
> Note that subclasses of PRStructure might override  
> #childrenDecorationClass to use a completely different decoration for  
> children.
>
>   
fair enough.

>> and an access interface defined for children...
>>
>> #addChild:
>> #childAt:
>> #childAt:ifAbsent:
>> #childAt:ifPresent:
>> #childrenIncludes:
>> #removeChild:
>>     
>
> I don't see why this would help. As far as I see none of my code uses  
> any of this functionality directly.
>  
I think that you forgot the command actions #doExecute etc. see above
> It is not the way Pier is designed. Compared to SmallWiki I wanted to  
> factor out all the behavior related to children to a different  
> (pluggable) object
Fair enough, I thought as much, but when I found PRStructure-#addChild: 
it indicated to me that you had thought of having a child-accessing 
interface of sorts, and so I simply completed the set to provide the 
functionality actually used in the image.

I had a look at the third option and this is what I came up with

PRDecorated>>newDecorationOfClass: aClass in: aBlock

| decoration result |

decoration := aClass new.

result := aBlock value: decoration.

decoration isEmpty ifFalse: [ self addDecoration: decoration ].

^result


PRDecorated>>decorationOfClass: aClass in: aBlock

| decoration result |

decoration := self decorationOfClass: aClass

        ifAbsent: [ ^self newDecorationOfClass: aClass in: aBlock ].

result := aBlock value: decoration.

decoration isEmpty ifTrue: [ self removeDecoration: decoration ].

^result


PRStructure>>childrenIn: aBlock
^ self decorationOfClass: self childrenDecorationClass in: aBlock

and so this enables things like

PRCommand>>uniqueName: aString in: aStructure
    "Answer an unique structure name with the prefix aString within the 
parent aStructure."

    | index name |
    (aStructure notNil
        and: [ aStructure childrenIn: [ :children | children includes: 
aString ] ])
            ifFalse: [ ^ aString ].
    index := 1.
    [ aStructure childrenIn: [ :children | children includes: (name := 
aString , ' ' , (index := index + 1) asString) ] ]
        whileTrue.
    ^ name

would that be better?


Keith


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/pipermail/smallwiki/attachments/20060924/d99aec1d/attachment-0001.html

From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Sun Sep 24 21:11:51 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:11:51 +0200
Subject: Accessors to children
In-Reply-To: <4516AB96.2090508@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <4515D87C.1060002@yahoo.co.uk>
	<0BD046D4-DFFA-4817-A9D7-E771A037C255@iam.unibe.ch>
	<4516AB96.2090508@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <C11749AA-1870-446B-9947-252CFEA85060@iam.unibe.ch>

> 2. Magma before serializing any PRDecorated looks to see if there  
> are any empty PRChildren and removes them before writing to its  
> buffers. [ I think that this will work , though I am not 100%  
> certain, but then we have PRChildren being created and destroyed  
> over and over.]

That should be fine, they don't have any semantics besides holding  
the children.

> 3. Use an interface such as
>
> aStructure withChildren: [ :children |  children add: ( aNewPage ) ]
> where #withChildren: cleans up afterwards.

There is such an interface already:

	aStructure enumerator do: [ :each | ... ].

You can also configure it to walk recursively:

	aStructure enumerator all do: [ :each | ... ].

Traverse hidden structure:

	aStructure enumerator hidden do: [ :each | ... ].

Traverse the reciever:

	aStructure enumerator with do: [ :each | ... ]

And all combinations of those.

> 4. Rewrite the commands above to use some form of visitor as you  
> suggest below:

I noticed that in the Seaside part of Pier the lookup of environments  
didn't go trough visitors. I fixed that in Pier-Seaside-lr.80.

I also fixed a bug I noticed in Pier-Security-lr.35.

>>> and an access interface defined for children... #addChild:  
>>> #childAt: #childAt:ifAbsent: #childAt:ifPresent:  
>>> #childrenIncludes: #removeChild:
>> I don't see why this would help. As far as I see none of my code  
>> uses any of this functionality directly.
> I think that you forgot the command actions #doExecute etc. see above

Yes, there might be more places where I violated my own design :-/

> PRCommand-#validateName: aString of: aChildStructure in: aStructure

This one does not create a decoration, since it tests #hasChildren  
before calling #childrenDecoration.

> PRCommand-#uniqueName: aString in: aStructure

This one creates a new unnecessary decoration in some rare cases, I  
will fix it as soon as possible.

> PRChangeEnvironmentCommand-#doExecute
> PRAddCommand-#doExecute
> PRCopyCommand-#doExecute
> PRMoveCommand-#doExecute

These all add a child, therefor it doesn't matter.

> PRStructure-#remove

I fixed that in Pier-Model-lr.80.

> Fair enough, I thought as much, but when I found PRStructure- 
> #addChild: it indicated to me that you had thought of having a  
> child-accessing interface of sorts, and so I simply completed the  
> set to provide the functionality actually used in the image.

This is solely a convenience method to allow building trees of Pier  
pages programmatically using cascades.

> and so this enables things like
>
> PRCommand>>uniqueName: aString in: aStructure
>     "Answer an unique structure name with the prefix aString within  
> the parent aStructure."
>
>     | index name |
>     (aStructure notNil
>         and: [ aStructure childrenIn: [ :children | children  
> includes: aString ] ])
>             ifFalse: [ ^ aString ].
>     index := 1.
>     [ aStructure childrenIn: [ :children | children includes:  
> (name := aString , ' ' , (index := index + 1) asString) ] ]
>         whileTrue.
>     ^ name
>
> would that be better?

Definitely.

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Sep 25 05:37:56 2006
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 04:37:56 +0100
Subject: Accessors to children
In-Reply-To: <C11749AA-1870-446B-9947-252CFEA85060@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <4515D87C.1060002@yahoo.co.uk>	<0BD046D4-DFFA-4817-A9D7-E771A037C255@iam.unibe.ch>	<4516AB96.2090508@yahoo.co.uk>
	<C11749AA-1870-446B-9947-252CFEA85060@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <45174F14.7010408@yahoo.co.uk>

Dear Lukas,

Thank you very much for you detailed feedback, it is really appreciated.

2. Magma before serializing any PRDecorated looks to see if there
>> are any empty PRChildren and removes them before writing to its  
>> buffers. [ I think that this will work , though I am not 100%  
>> certain, but then we have PRChildren being created and destroyed  
>> over and over.
done.
>   
>> PRCommand-#uniqueName: aString in: aStructure
>>     
>
> This one creates a new unnecessary decoration in some rare cases, I  
> will fix it as soon as possible.
>   
fix uploaded to Pier-Model-kph.87


best regards

Keith
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/pipermail/smallwiki/attachments/20060925/ef887463/attachment.html

From bakki.kudva at gmail.com  Mon Sep 25 15:54:08 2006
From: bakki.kudva at gmail.com (Bakki Kudva)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 09:54:08 -0400
Subject: Pier structure inspector icons
In-Reply-To: <372A7DD0-ED32-4D5A-B9D7-9DB3949BD550@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <66666f210609211416qe034cf7l444ca605297be6a3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f7f43c920609221018rc3de17dta6b4b2ff3e546e2b@mail.gmail.com>
	<66666f210609230523k6c2c279dv85ebf909ac7df8fc@mail.gmail.com>
	<372A7DD0-ED32-4D5A-B9D7-9DB3949BD550@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <f7f43c920609250654n66626a75r8bff9737b27c6e64@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Lukas, I hadn't looked at the way Pier is using WATree. But I sure will.

-bakki

On 9/24/06, Lukas Renggli <renggli at iam.unibe.ch> wrote:
> I think the WATree that Pier is using supports icons, no? You just
> have to enable them from the settings in the Web.
>
> The WATree in Seaside is a port of the Tree in Pier, but without Pier
> specific things such as icons. I think you can easily put back in the
> support for icons, if you need.

From cnantais at gmail.com  Mon Sep 25 18:46:13 2006
From: cnantais at gmail.com (Chad Nantais)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 09:46:13 -0700
Subject: MAMultipleOptionDescription
Message-ID: <3de931600609250946y1595039ay98f7055b7f4bba3e@mail.gmail.com>

Not sure how to do this with Magritte.

I have a model 'MYBuilding' which has many 'MYAmenity' objects.  When
showing the editor for building, I want the user to be able to select
multiple amenities from the amenity collection in MYAmenity
class>>collection, rather than creating new amenities for the
building.

This is the description I have for MYBuilding class>>descriptionAmenities
descriptionAmenities
	^ (MAMultipleOptionDescription auto: 'amenities' label: 'Amenities'
priority: 40)
		options: MVAmenity collection;
		reference: MVAmenity descriptionTitle;
		beSorted;
		yourself.

It's not working.  I get an MNU on MVAmenity>>do:

I'm guessing it has something to do with what I'm sending to the
reference selector, since I have no idea what I'm supposed to have
there.


Thanks in advance.

Chad

From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Mon Sep 25 19:43:47 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 19:43:47 +0200
Subject: Magritte Morphic
In-Reply-To: <D3194F555AB2844BA3B0B880FB223957E86E79@exch01.brandmuscle.local>
References: <D3194F555AB2844BA3B0B880FB223957E86E79@exch01.brandmuscle.local>
Message-ID: <0DE1772A-3FCB-4F8C-AC34-7603E9B49F26@iam.unibe.ch>

On 25 Sep 2006, at 19:10, Bruce Haugland wrote:
> I recently began working the the Morphic side of Magritte.  This is  
> an outstanding package.
>
> However I have noticed that some aspects of Magritte are more  
> complete on Seaside then they are on the Morphic side.  What is the  
> status of Magritte-Morph.  Will it continue to be developed or is  
> it simply Dead Code.
The morphic part of Magritte is more a prove of concept than code  
useable in production. I only implemented the parts that are needed  
to run Pier within the Squeak image. Pier itself only uses a subset  
of Magritte, therefor the package Magritte-Morph has never been taken  
as far as Magritte-Seaside that is used in several industrial  
application. Most of the productive applications I am involved with  
are Web applications. Quite a lot of those applications use Magritte- 
Seaside, therefor I concentrated most of my energy on this package.

Right now, since time and commercial interest for Magritte-Morphic is  
missing, I am unable to continue with this sub-project on my own. I  
am still keeping the package up-to-date to make it work together with  
Pier, but I in the short I will not implement new features. However,  
I would be glad and willing to help, if anybody takes over the  
development of Magritte-Morph, or even starts with something new like  
Magritte-Tweak or Magritte-Sophie.

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Mon Sep 25 19:46:02 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 19:46:02 +0200
Subject: MAMultipleOptionDescription
In-Reply-To: <3de931600609250946y1595039ay98f7055b7f4bba3e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3de931600609250946y1595039ay98f7055b7f4bba3e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7FBC506A-BA3C-4E7D-8830-DF5A17D79E66@iam.unibe.ch>

> This is the description I have for MYBuilding  
> class>>descriptionAmenities
> descriptionAmenities
> 	^ (MAMultipleOptionDescription auto: 'amenities' label: 'Amenities'
> priority: 40)
> 		options: MVAmenity collection;
> 		reference: MVAmenity descriptionTitle;
> 		beSorted;
> 		yourself.
>
> It's not working.  I get an MNU on MVAmenity>>do:
>
> I'm guessing it has something to do with what I'm sending to the
> reference selector, since I have no idea what I'm supposed to have
> there.

Try

	...
	reference: MVAmnity description
	...

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From cnantais at gmail.com  Mon Sep 25 20:11:18 2006
From: cnantais at gmail.com (Chad Nantais)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:11:18 -0700
Subject: MAMultipleOptionDescription
In-Reply-To: <7FBC506A-BA3C-4E7D-8830-DF5A17D79E66@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <3de931600609250946y1595039ay98f7055b7f4bba3e@mail.gmail.com>
	<7FBC506A-BA3C-4E7D-8830-DF5A17D79E66@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <3de931600609251111y5ca2f656g8cf418dee15e2a6e@mail.gmail.com>

Works.  I even got it to work with the list composition component with:

descriptionAmenities
	^ (MAMultipleOptionDescription auto: 'amenities' label: 'Amenities'
priority: 40)
		componentClass: MAListCompositonComponent;
		options: MVAmenity collection;
		reference: MVAmenity description;
		beSorted;
		yourself.

Thanks Lukas.

Chad

On 9/25/06, Lukas Renggli <renggli at iam.unibe.ch> wrote:
> > This is the description I have for MYBuilding
> > class>>descriptionAmenities
> > descriptionAmenities
> >       ^ (MAMultipleOptionDescription auto: 'amenities' label: 'Amenities'
> > priority: 40)
> >               options: MVAmenity collection;
> >               reference: MVAmenity descriptionTitle;
> >               beSorted;
> >               yourself.
> >
> > It's not working.  I get an MNU on MVAmenity>>do:
> >
> > I'm guessing it has something to do with what I'm sending to the
> > reference selector, since I have no idea what I'm supposed to have
> > there.
>
> Try
>
>         ...
>         reference: MVAmnity description
>         ...
>
> Cheers,
> Lukas
>
> --
> Lukas Renggli
> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>

From cnantais at gmail.com  Mon Sep 25 21:22:35 2006
From: cnantais at gmail.com (Chad Nantais)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 12:22:35 -0700
Subject: Saving MAFileModel to filesystem
Message-ID: <3de931600609251222s97cba79sc60d051ab64d103e@mail.gmail.com>

What's the best way to have an MAFileDescription upload save the
MAFileModel contents  to the filesystem instead of the Squeak image.
I'm talking about image mimetypes in this case, which I will be
serving with a seperate Komanche instance and I don't want them
bloating my Squeak image.

Thanks in advance.

Chad

From damien.cassou at laposte.net  Tue Sep 26 13:22:34 2006
From: damien.cassou at laposte.net (Damien Cassou)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:22:34 +0200
Subject: Saving MAFileModel to filesystem
In-Reply-To: <3de931600609251222s97cba79sc60d051ab64d103e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3de931600609251222s97cba79sc60d051ab64d103e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45190D7A.9080708@laposte.net>

Chad Nantais a ?crit :
> What's the best way to have an MAFileDescription upload save the
> MAFileModel contents  to the filesystem instead of the Squeak image.
> I'm talking about image mimetypes in this case, which I will be
> serving with a seperate Komanche instance and I don't want them
> bloating my Squeak image.

I just did a command this morning that allows the user to upload a file 
and place it to a given directory.

There is some odd things but it works.


PRCommand subclass: #PRUpload
   instanceVariableNames: 'file destination directory'
   classVariableNames: ''
   poolDictionaries: ''
   category: 'Pier-Model-Command'

PRUpload>>destination
   ^ destination

PRUpload>>destination: aString
   destination := aString

PRUpload>>file
   ^ file

PRUpload>>file: aMAFileModel
   file := aMAFileModel

PRUpload>>doValidate
   super doValidate.
   (FileDirectory default directoryExists: self destination)
     ifFalse: [MAError raiseSignal: 'Destination does not exist'].

   directory := (FileDirectory default directoryNamed: self destination).

   (directory fileExists: self file filename)
     ifTrue: [MAError raiseSignal: 'A file with the same name already 
exist. Please rename the file!'].
   self writeFile.

PRUpload>>writeFile
   |stream |
   stream := self file contents readStream.
   (directory putFile: stream named: self file filename)
     ifFalse: [MAError raiseSignal: 'An error occurred while trying to 
create a file with the given name in the destination folder!'].



PRUpload class
   instanceVariableNames: ''

PRUpload class>>descriptionDestination
   ^ (MAStringDescription auto: #destination label: 'Destination' 
priority: 200 default: 'resources')
     beRequired;
     yourself

PRUpload class>>descriptionFile
   ^ (MAFileDescription auto: #file label: 'File' priority: 100)
     beRequired;
     yourself

PRUpload class>>isAbstract
   ^ false

PRUpload class>>label
   ^ 'Send a file'



-- 
Damien Cassou


From cnantais at gmail.com  Tue Sep 26 20:11:50 2006
From: cnantais at gmail.com (Chad Nantais)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:11:50 -0700
Subject: Saving MAFileModel to filesystem
In-Reply-To: <45190D7A.9080708@laposte.net>
References: <3de931600609251222s97cba79sc60d051ab64d103e@mail.gmail.com>
	<45190D7A.9080708@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <3de931600609261111r583544b0kf6461cbee668ca2a@mail.gmail.com>

Cool.  Thanks, Damien.

One quick question.  How would I remove the file's data from the
contents variable so it does not hang around the image? Would it be
good enough to just set the contents variable to nil once the file is
saved to the directory?

Thanks,

Chad

On 9/26/06, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou at laposte.net> wrote:
> Chad Nantais a ?crit :
> > What's the best way to have an MAFileDescription upload save the
> > MAFileModel contents  to the filesystem instead of the Squeak image.
> > I'm talking about image mimetypes in this case, which I will be
> > serving with a seperate Komanche instance and I don't want them
> > bloating my Squeak image.
>
> I just did a command this morning that allows the user to upload a file
> and place it to a given directory.
>
> There is some odd things but it works.
>
>
> PRCommand subclass: #PRUpload
>    instanceVariableNames: 'file destination directory'
>    classVariableNames: ''
>    poolDictionaries: ''
>    category: 'Pier-Model-Command'
>
> PRUpload>>destination
>    ^ destination
>
> PRUpload>>destination: aString
>    destination := aString
>
> PRUpload>>file
>    ^ file
>
> PRUpload>>file: aMAFileModel
>    file := aMAFileModel
>
> PRUpload>>doValidate
>    super doValidate.
>    (FileDirectory default directoryExists: self destination)
>      ifFalse: [MAError raiseSignal: 'Destination does not exist'].
>
>    directory := (FileDirectory default directoryNamed: self destination).
>
>    (directory fileExists: self file filename)
>      ifTrue: [MAError raiseSignal: 'A file with the same name already
> exist. Please rename the file!'].
>    self writeFile.
>
> PRUpload>>writeFile
>    |stream |
>    stream := self file contents readStream.
>    (directory putFile: stream named: self file filename)
>      ifFalse: [MAError raiseSignal: 'An error occurred while trying to
> create a file with the given name in the destination folder!'].
>
>
>
> PRUpload class
>    instanceVariableNames: ''
>
> PRUpload class>>descriptionDestination
>    ^ (MAStringDescription auto: #destination label: 'Destination'
> priority: 200 default: 'resources')
>      beRequired;
>      yourself
>
> PRUpload class>>descriptionFile
>    ^ (MAFileDescription auto: #file label: 'File' priority: 100)
>      beRequired;
>      yourself
>
> PRUpload class>>isAbstract
>    ^ false
>
> PRUpload class>>label
>    ^ 'Send a file'
>
>
>
> --
> Damien Cassou
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>


From damien.cassou at laposte.net  Tue Sep 26 20:58:31 2006
From: damien.cassou at laposte.net (Damien Cassou)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 20:58:31 +0200
Subject: Saving MAFileModel to filesystem
In-Reply-To: <3de931600609261111r583544b0kf6461cbee668ca2a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3de931600609251222s97cba79sc60d051ab64d103e@mail.gmail.com>	<45190D7A.9080708@laposte.net>
	<3de931600609261111r583544b0kf6461cbee668ca2a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45197857.5000305@laposte.net>

Chad Nantais a ?crit :
> Cool.  Thanks, Damien.
> 
> One quick question.  How would I remove the file's data from the
> contents variable so it does not hang around the image? Would it be
> good enough to just set the contents variable to nil once the file is
> saved to the directory?

You can set the contents variable to nil but I think doing nothing will 
work too. Your MAFileModel, if not stored, will be garbage collected 
sonner or later.

-- 
Damien Cassou


From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Thu Sep 28 19:55:29 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 19:55:29 +0200
Subject: Offline
Message-ID: <3DCCA35C-5612-4B70-AAB4-52C3B0FE25FF@iam.unibe.ch>

Hi,

I am moving to another flat the coming weekend, therefor I won't be  
able to respond to mails and my server will be offline starting  
Saturday morning. This also means that the Magritte and Pier  
repositories won't be accessible for a couple of days.

The server will be put online again as soon as possible, however it  
might take a while to get things settled with the new internet  
provider. I hope to be online at least on Wednesday next week, but  
one never knows what happens.

Please continue with all the nice enhancements and extensions to Pier  
and Magritte, we can merge them back into the main branch after the  
server comes up again ;-)

Have fun,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From ducasse at iam.unibe.ch  Thu Sep 28 20:32:36 2006
From: ducasse at iam.unibe.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?st=E9phane_ducasse?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:32:36 +0200
Subject: Offline
In-Reply-To: <3DCCA35C-5612-4B70-AAB4-52C3B0FE25FF@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <3DCCA35C-5612-4B70-AAB4-52C3B0FE25FF@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <B6E1BAC0-8174-4C9E-B19D-0C21A76CE28C@iam.unibe.ch>

good move lukas
too bad that I'm there to help you caring boxes.... of comics of course

stef

On 28 sept. 06, at 19:55, Lukas Renggli wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am moving to another flat the coming weekend, therefor I won't be
> able to respond to mails and my server will be offline starting
> Saturday morning. This also means that the Magritte and Pier
> repositories won't be accessible for a couple of days.
>
> The server will be put online again as soon as possible, however it
> might take a while to get things settled with the new internet
> provider. I hope to be online at least on Wednesday next week, but
> one never knows what happens.
>
> Please continue with all the nice enhancements and extensions to Pier
> and Magritte, we can merge them back into the main branch after the
> server comes up again ;-)
>
> Have fun,
> Lukas
>
> -- 
> Lukas Renggli
> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki


From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Thu Sep 28 21:00:34 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 21:00:34 +0200
Subject: Offline
In-Reply-To: <B6E1BAC0-8174-4C9E-B19D-0C21A76CE28C@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <3DCCA35C-5612-4B70-AAB4-52C3B0FE25FF@iam.unibe.ch>
	<B6E1BAC0-8174-4C9E-B19D-0C21A76CE28C@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <B89C4D9E-EC55-432A-AB84-A72660C13D8D@iam.unibe.ch>

> good move lukas
> too bad that I'm there to help you caring boxes.... of comics of  
> course

Thanks Stef, I already moved the boxes of comics this week. Now there  
is just the furniture remaining, but I have some people that will  
help to carry the heavy stuff.

Btw, my new flat is close to your place, on the opposite site, a bit  
further down the Aare. Looking forward having a quiet place to sleep ;-)

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From rfh at atnet.at  Thu Sep 28 21:33:32 2006
From: rfh at atnet.at (Reinhard Handl)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 21:33:32 +0200
Subject: Offline
In-Reply-To: <3DCCA35C-5612-4B70-AAB4-52C3B0FE25FF@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <3DCCA35C-5612-4B70-AAB4-52C3B0FE25FF@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <451C238C.2000801@atnet.at>

hallo lukas,
suche grade infos ?ber pier und hab auf deiner spielverderber-site
herumgespielt. unter view morphic gabs dann einen fehler und ich hab 
irrt?mlich auf debug geclickt,
das war nicht so toll, jetzt h?ngt die site. sorry.

lg, reinhard



Lukas Renggli schrieb:
> Hi,
>
> I am moving to another flat the coming weekend, therefor I won't be  
> able to respond to mails and my server will be offline starting  
> Saturday morning. This also means that the Magritte and Pier  
> repositories won't be accessible for a couple of days.
>
> The server will be put online again as soon as possible, however it  
> might take a while to get things settled with the new internet  
> provider. I hope to be online at least on Wednesday next week, but  
> one never knows what happens.
>
> Please continue with all the nice enhancements and extensions to Pier  
> and Magritte, we can merge them back into the main branch after the  
> server comes up again ;-)
>
> Have fun,
> Lukas
>
>   


From ramon.leon at allresnet.com  Thu Sep 28 21:33:53 2006
From: ramon.leon at allresnet.com (Ramon Leon)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 12:33:53 -0700
Subject: Offline
In-Reply-To: <B6E1BAC0-8174-4C9E-B19D-0C21A76CE28C@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <003d01c6e335$081e67a0$9700a8c0@hq.allresnet.com>

Hey guys, anyone know why squeak dev is offline?

Ram?n Le?n
http://onsmalltalk.com  




From ducasse at iam.unibe.ch  Thu Sep 28 21:48:35 2006
From: ducasse at iam.unibe.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?st=E9phane_ducasse?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 21:48:35 +0200
Subject: Offline
In-Reply-To: <003d01c6e335$081e67a0$9700a8c0@hq.allresnet.com>
References: <003d01c6e335$081e67a0$9700a8c0@hq.allresnet.com>
Message-ID: <29933D4D-83D6-4303-B6C0-75A8C281556D@iam.unibe.ch>

no

On 28 sept. 06, at 21:33, Ramon Leon wrote:

> Hey guys, anyone know why squeak dev is offline?
>
> Ram?n Le?n
> http://onsmalltalk.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>



From brad at sonaural.com  Thu Sep 28 21:51:40 2006
From: brad at sonaural.com (Brad Fuller)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 12:51:40 -0700
Subject: Offline
In-Reply-To: <003d01c6e335$081e67a0$9700a8c0@hq.allresnet.com>
References: <003d01c6e335$081e67a0$9700a8c0@hq.allresnet.com>
Message-ID: <451C27CC.20302@sonaural.com>

Ramon Leon wrote:
> Hey guys, anyone know why squeak dev is offline?
>   
billing issue. From Ken:

"Unfortunately the server (as well as the server where
people.squeakfoundation.org is) is temporarily down due to a billing
problem. This should be sorted out in a couple of days and everything
should be back up and running then. I'm sorry for the temporary
downtime.

Ken"

From ramon.leon at allresnet.com  Thu Sep 28 22:55:04 2006
From: ramon.leon at allresnet.com (Ramon Leon)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:55:04 -0700
Subject: Offline
In-Reply-To: <451C27CC.20302@sonaural.com>
Message-ID: <004d01c6e340$5f6f0040$9700a8c0@hq.allresnet.com>

> "Unfortunately the server (as well as the server where 
> people.squeakfoundation.org is) is temporarily down due to a 
> billing problem. This should be sorted out in a couple of 
> days and everything should be back up and running then. I'm 
> sorry for the temporary downtime.
> 
> Ken"

:( I'm joansing, I need my squeak news.

Ram?n Le?n
http://onsmalltalk.com  



From giovanni at corriga.net  Thu Sep 28 23:08:55 2006
From: giovanni at corriga.net (Giovanni Corriga)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 23:08:55 +0200
Subject: Offline
In-Reply-To: <004d01c6e340$5f6f0040$9700a8c0@hq.allresnet.com>
References: <004d01c6e340$5f6f0040$9700a8c0@hq.allresnet.com>
Message-ID: <1159477735.4026.14.camel@rincewind>

Il giorno gio, 28/09/2006 alle 13.55 -0700, Ramon Leon ha scritto:
> > "Unfortunately the server (as well as the server where 
> > people.squeakfoundation.org is) is temporarily down due to a 
> > billing problem. This should be sorted out in a couple of 
> > days and everything should be back up and running then. I'm 
> > sorry for the temporary downtime.
> > 
> > Ken"
> 
> :( I'm joansing, I need my squeak news.

http://weeklysqueak.wordpress.com and http://planet.squeak.org are still
working.

	Giovanni


From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Thu Sep 28 23:09:16 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 23:09:16 +0200
Subject: Offline
In-Reply-To: <451C238C.2000801@atnet.at>
References: <3DCCA35C-5612-4B70-AAB4-52C3B0FE25FF@iam.unibe.ch>
	<451C238C.2000801@atnet.at>
Message-ID: <CDA5E379-A935-4F1D-A9E9-701468DB2FCE@iam.unibe.ch>

> suche grade infos ?ber pier und hab auf deiner spielverderber-site
> herumgespielt. unter view morphic gabs dann einen fehler und ich hab
> irrt?mlich auf debug geclickt,
> das war nicht so toll, jetzt h?ngt die site. sorry.

This is Philippe Marschall implemented this project and that is  
running this site.

Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch




From philippe.marschall at gmail.com  Thu Sep 28 23:56:23 2006
From: philippe.marschall at gmail.com (Philippe Marschall)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 23:56:23 +0200
Subject: Offline
In-Reply-To: <451C238C.2000801@atnet.at>
References: <3DCCA35C-5612-4B70-AAB4-52C3B0FE25FF@iam.unibe.ch>
	<451C238C.2000801@atnet.at>
Message-ID: <66666f210609281456p43836a3fu51b8306200ad1681@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

Lukas ist daran ganz und gar unschuldig. Ich f?rchte das geht alles
auf meine Kappe. Der Bug ist mittlerweile im Code gefixt aber noch
nicht deployed.
Und mach dir wegen der Seite keine Sorgen, im schlimmsten Fall starte
ich einfach das Image neu. Das ist einer der Vorteile wenn man keine
Persistenz hat. ;)
Im Moment scheint sie zumindest wieder zu laufen.

'Werde wohl mal ein neues Image machen m?ssen, da es auch Probleme mit
der Performance zu geben scheint. Daf?r scheint Google Related Liks
endlich zu laufen. Wie es aussieht war der Trick einfach lange genug
zu warten bis Google den Index angepasst hat.

Philippe


2006/9/28, Reinhard Handl <rfh at atnet.at>:
> hallo lukas,
> suche grade infos ?ber pier und hab auf deiner spielverderber-site
> herumgespielt. unter view morphic gabs dann einen fehler und ich hab
> irrt?mlich auf debug geclickt,
> das war nicht so toll, jetzt h?ngt die site. sorry.
>
> lg, reinhard
>
>
>
> Lukas Renggli schrieb:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am moving to another flat the coming weekend, therefor I won't be
> > able to respond to mails and my server will be offline starting
> > Saturday morning. This also means that the Magritte and Pier
> > repositories won't be accessible for a couple of days.
> >
> > The server will be put online again as soon as possible, however it
> > might take a while to get things settled with the new internet
> > provider. I hope to be online at least on Wednesday next week, but
> > one never knows what happens.
> >
> > Please continue with all the nice enhancements and extensions to Pier
> > and Magritte, we can merge them back into the main branch after the
> > server comes up again ;-)
> >
> > Have fun,
> > Lukas
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>


From keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Sep 29 00:53:03 2006
From: keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk (Keith Hodges)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 23:53:03 +0100
Subject: WASession-properties?
Message-ID: <451C524F.7030009@yahoo.co.uk>

A seaside question.

Has anyone ever suggested that having properties in WASession might be a 
good idea?
I want to add things to sessions without having to define my own class 
of session.

Keith

p.s. in 3.8 still so no traits

		
___________________________________________________________ 
All New Yahoo! Mail ? Tired of Vi at gr@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

From ramon.leon at allresnet.com  Fri Sep 29 00:52:30 2006
From: ramon.leon at allresnet.com (Ramon Leon)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:52:30 -0700
Subject: WASession-properties?
In-Reply-To: <451C524F.7030009@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <005e01c6e350$c7637270$9700a8c0@hq.allresnet.com>

> A seaside question.
> 
> Has anyone ever suggested that having properties in WASession 
> might be a good idea?
> I want to add things to sessions without having to define my 
> own class of session.
> 
> Keith
> 
> p.s. in 3.8 still so no traits

Why the aversion to using your own class?  You can define your own class
once, with properties, and use it for all your projects.


Ram?n Le?n
http://onsmalltalk.com