From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Fri Feb 10 10:08:05 2006
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 09:08:05 -0000
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.0.1139562538.27498.smallwiki@iam.unibe.ch>

!

Regards
Samir

-- 
Samir SAIDANI				
PhD Student in CS / Doctorant en informatique 	web : http://www.info.unicaen.fr/~saidani
Universite de Caen - Laboratoire GREYC          tel : 02-31-56-74-30
Equipe MAD - Campus II - 14032 Caen Cedex       fax : 02-31-56-76-30


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Fri Feb 10 10:08:05 2006
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 09:08:05 -0000
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.1.1139562542.27498.smallwiki@iam.unibe.ch>

than just a wiki"

So how about Simmtjaw? Or Swimmtjaw?

Or better yet just Swimm -- "SmallWiki is much more"?!

On 9/16/05, Samir Saidani <saidani at info.unicaen.fr> wrote:
> Damien Cassou <damien.cassou at laposte.net> writes:
> 
> 
> > Swinaw: SmallWiki is not a wiki
> > Sinawa: Smallwiki is not a wiki anymore
> > SmallHarbour
> 
> Hi !
> 
> I like the idea like "Smallwiki is not a wiki", because SW2 is related
> to Magritte, who paints the famous "This is not a pipe", and SW2 is
> much more than a wiki. Magritte paints also the "pandore box", so to
> keep the theme, I propose "Pandore". It gives the feeling that
> wonderful things could pop up from this new tools...
> 
> My 2 cents ;-)
> Samir
> 


-- 
Jason Rogers

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I,
but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in 
the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved 
me, and gave himself for me."
    Galatians 2:20



From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Thu Feb  9 23:42:42 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 23:42:42 +0100
Subject: [Smallwiki]  SmallWiki Mailing List
Message-ID: <D11C1B7A-8B2A-49C1-B85E-B032B3CDF3AF@iam.unibe.ch>

Sorry to annoy you with a test-mail. There were problems with the  
list lately and some mails got lost, so I have to check if it is  
properly working again. Moreover we switched from Majordomo to  
Mailman, so it is really worth a first test ;-)

Remember, even-tough this list is called "SmallWiki" this is the  
place to ask questions and to discuss about:

	SmallWiki [SW]

	Pier [PR]

	Magritte [MA]

Have fun,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch


From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Fri Feb 10 10:29:13 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 10:29:13 +0100
Subject: is the best way to get the latest seaside version 
In-Reply-To: <933EEC05-193B-4906-97C7-3AC31D9E538F@free.fr>
References: <933EEC05-193B-4906-97C7-3AC31D9E538F@free.fr>
Message-ID: <5D2A0C9D-58E9-4BBD-BB35-DF967877CA2B@iam.unibe.ch>

> to load pier?

MCHttpRepository
	location: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/Seaside'
	user: ''
	password: ''

But it is the most convenient if you just load Pier from SqueakMap,  
then you get automatically everything you need. You can then easily  
update the Pier code to the latest version by using Monticello.

Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From renggli at gmail.com  Fri Feb 10 18:14:01 2006
From: renggli at gmail.com (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 18:14:01 +0100
Subject: Pier Search Component
In-Reply-To: <3de931600602100535n27b166eci9b7d839246d10ccc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3de931600602100535n27b166eci9b7d839246d10ccc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67628d690602100914p1adde9a9ld7e914ee27ec0af2@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Chad,

> Search functionality is key to the cms project I am working on.
> However, the search component in Pier seems to be broken for me.  I
> get this error:

the search of Pier is very sophisticated, probably much more than
anybody wants. It is more like a query engine and supports its own
(strange) syntax that you obviously don't follow (therefor the strange
error, sorry) ;-)

See PRQueryTests to see some examples:

    " finds pages with a table "
    self kind = 'Table'

    " finds pages with external links to iam.unibe.ch "
    (self kind = 'External Link') & (self url matches: 'iam.unibe.ch')

To do a full text-search as you like, you might want to use the short
form like, but you need the quotes to make the parser happy:

    'foo'

I see that many people struggle with that (powerful) search engine. It
is very easy to come up with something much simpler, it is just a
matter of adding a new visitor class and to implement a few simple
methods to, if I remember this is described in our paper. I will come
up with a simple solution this weekend and send you a notification, if
time allows.

Cheers,
Lukas


> SmaCCParserError: Token not expected
>
>     * MARelationParser(SmaCCParser)>>reportErrorMessage:
>
>           self  a MARelationParser
>           temps
>           aString       'Token not expected'
>           inst vars
>           scanner       a MARelationScanner
>           currentToken  {(5,4,#(30))}
>           errorToken    {(5,4,#(30))}
>           stateStack    an OrderedCollection(1 13)
>           nodeStack     an OrderedCollection(#test)
>
>     * MARelationParser(SmaCCParser)>>reportError:
>
>           self  a MARelationParser
>           temps
>           anInteger     0
>           inst vars
>           scanner       a MARelationScanner
>           currentToken  {(5,4,#(30))}
>           errorToken    {(5,4,#(30))}
>           stateStack    an OrderedCollection(1 13)
>           nodeStack     an OrderedCollection(#test)
>
>     * MARelationParser(SmaCCParser)>>handleError:
>
>           self  a MARelationParser
>           temps
>           anInteger     0
>           inst vars
>           scanner       a MARelationScanner
>           currentToken  {(5,4,#(30))}
>           errorToken    {(5,4,#(30))}
>           stateStack    an OrderedCollection(1 13)
>           nodeStack     an OrderedCollection(#test)
>
>     * MARelationParser(SmaCCParser)>>performParsingLoop
>
>           self  a MARelationParser
>           temps
>           action        0
>           actionType    3
>           inst vars
>           scanner       a MARelationScanner
>           currentToken  {(5,4,#(30))}
>           errorToken    {(5,4,#(30))}
>           stateStack    an OrderedCollection(1 13)
>           nodeStack     an OrderedCollection(#test)
>
>     * MARelationParser(SmaCCParser)>>parse
>
>           self  a MARelationParser
>           temps
>           inst vars
>           scanner       a MARelationScanner
>           currentToken  {(5,4,#(30))}
>           errorToken    {(5,4,#(30))}
>           stateStack    an OrderedCollection(1 13)
>           nodeStack     an OrderedCollection(#test)
>
> Is there an easy fix for this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chad
>


--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch


From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Fri Feb 10 20:19:19 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 20:19:19 +0100
Subject: Pier Search Component
In-Reply-To: <67628d690602100914p1adde9a9ld7e914ee27ec0af2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3de931600602100535n27b166eci9b7d839246d10ccc@mail.gmail.com>
	<67628d690602100914p1adde9a9ld7e914ee27ec0af2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45DE7D14-C394-4A5A-A107-D8E0FFC62522@iam.unibe.ch>

I published a new snapshot of pier (http://mc.lukas-renggli.ch/pier)  
that replaces the query engine with a simple full-text search. If you  
have Scriptaculous loaded it even updates life while you type the  
expression, that demoes its speed.

Have fun,
Lukas

On 10 Feb 2006, at 18:14, Lukas Renggli wrote:

> Hi Chad,
>
>> Search functionality is key to the cms project I am working on.
>> However, the search component in Pier seems to be broken for me.  I
>> get this error:
>
> the search of Pier is very sophisticated, probably much more than
> anybody wants. It is more like a query engine and supports its own
> (strange) syntax that you obviously don't follow (therefor the strange
> error, sorry) ;-)
>
> See PRQueryTests to see some examples:
>
>     " finds pages with a table "
>     self kind = 'Table'
>
>     " finds pages with external links to iam.unibe.ch "
>     (self kind = 'External Link') & (self url matches: 'iam.unibe.ch')
>
> To do a full text-search as you like, you might want to use the short
> form like, but you need the quotes to make the parser happy:
>
>     'foo'
>
> I see that many people struggle with that (powerful) search engine. It
> is very easy to come up with something much simpler, it is just a
> matter of adding a new visitor class and to implement a few simple
> methods to, if I remember this is described in our paper. I will come
> up with a simple solution this weekend and send you a notification, if
> time allows.
>
> Cheers,
> Lukas
>
>
>> SmaCCParserError: Token not expected
>>
>>     * MARelationParser(SmaCCParser)>>reportErrorMessage:
>>
>>           self  a MARelationParser
>>           temps
>>           aString       'Token not expected'
>>           inst vars
>>           scanner       a MARelationScanner
>>           currentToken  {(5,4,#(30))}
>>           errorToken    {(5,4,#(30))}
>>           stateStack    an OrderedCollection(1 13)
>>           nodeStack     an OrderedCollection(#test)
>>
>>     * MARelationParser(SmaCCParser)>>reportError:
>>
>>           self  a MARelationParser
>>           temps
>>           anInteger     0
>>           inst vars
>>           scanner       a MARelationScanner
>>           currentToken  {(5,4,#(30))}
>>           errorToken    {(5,4,#(30))}
>>           stateStack    an OrderedCollection(1 13)
>>           nodeStack     an OrderedCollection(#test)
>>
>>     * MARelationParser(SmaCCParser)>>handleError:
>>
>>           self  a MARelationParser
>>           temps
>>           anInteger     0
>>           inst vars
>>           scanner       a MARelationScanner
>>           currentToken  {(5,4,#(30))}
>>           errorToken    {(5,4,#(30))}
>>           stateStack    an OrderedCollection(1 13)
>>           nodeStack     an OrderedCollection(#test)
>>
>>     * MARelationParser(SmaCCParser)>>performParsingLoop
>>
>>           self  a MARelationParser
>>           temps
>>           action        0
>>           actionType    3
>>           inst vars
>>           scanner       a MARelationScanner
>>           currentToken  {(5,4,#(30))}
>>           errorToken    {(5,4,#(30))}
>>           stateStack    an OrderedCollection(1 13)
>>           nodeStack     an OrderedCollection(#test)
>>
>>     * MARelationParser(SmaCCParser)>>parse
>>
>>           self  a MARelationParser
>>           temps
>>           inst vars
>>           scanner       a MARelationScanner
>>           currentToken  {(5,4,#(30))}
>>           errorToken    {(5,4,#(30))}
>>           stateStack    an OrderedCollection(1 13)
>>           nodeStack     an OrderedCollection(#test)
>>
>> Is there an easy fix for this?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Chad
>>
>
>
> --
> Lukas Renggli
> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From ducasse at iam.unibe.ch  Fri Feb 10 21:01:24 2006
From: ducasse at iam.unibe.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?st=E9phane_ducasse?=)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 21:01:24 +0100
Subject: Pier Search Component
In-Reply-To: <45DE7D14-C394-4A5A-A107-D8E0FFC62522@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <3de931600602100535n27b166eci9b7d839246d10ccc@mail.gmail.com>
	<67628d690602100914p1adde9a9ld7e914ee27ec0af2@mail.gmail.com>
	<45DE7D14-C394-4A5A-A107-D8E0FFC62522@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <7410773D-7040-40B2-B636-E2BC39423F1C@iam.unibe.ch>

excellent.
Lukas I will try to get some guys defining an advanced query  
component based on the previous
meta model oriented query engine....
but let's that I start to doubt about the abilities of certain  
students. Few are like you :)

Stef

On 10 f?vr. 06, at 20:19, Lukas Renggli wrote:

> I published a new snapshot of pier (http://mc.lukas-renggli.ch/pier)
> that replaces the query engine with a simple full-text search. If you
> have Scriptaculous loaded it even updates life while you type the
> expression, that demoes its speed.
>
> Have fun,
> Lukas
>
> On 10 Feb 2006, at 18:14, Lukas Renggli wrote:
>
>> Hi Chad,
>>
>>> Search functionality is key to the cms project I am working on.
>>> However, the search component in Pier seems to be broken for me.  I
>>> get this error:
>>
>> the search of Pier is very sophisticated, probably much more than
>> anybody wants. It is more like a query engine and supports its own
>> (strange) syntax that you obviously don't follow (therefor the  
>> strange
>> error, sorry) ;-)
>>
>> See PRQueryTests to see some examples:
>>
>>     " finds pages with a table "
>>     self kind = 'Table'
>>
>>     " finds pages with external links to iam.unibe.ch "
>>     (self kind = 'External Link') & (self url matches:  
>> 'iam.unibe.ch')
>>
>> To do a full text-search as you like, you might want to use the short
>> form like, but you need the quotes to make the parser happy:
>>
>>     'foo'
>>
>> I see that many people struggle with that (powerful) search  
>> engine. It
>> is very easy to come up with something much simpler, it is just a
>> matter of adding a new visitor class and to implement a few simple
>> methods to, if I remember this is described in our paper. I will come
>> up with a simple solution this weekend and send you a  
>> notification, if
>> time allows.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Lukas
>>
>>
>>> SmaCCParserError: Token not expected
>>>
>>>     * MARelationParser(SmaCCParser)>>reportErrorMessage:
>>>
>>>           self  a MARelationParser
>>>           temps
>>>           aString       'Token not expected'
>>>           inst vars
>>>           scanner       a MARelationScanner
>>>           currentToken  {(5,4,#(30))}
>>>           errorToken    {(5,4,#(30))}
>>>           stateStack    an OrderedCollection(1 13)
>>>           nodeStack     an OrderedCollection(#test)
>>>
>>>     * MARelationParser(SmaCCParser)>>reportError:
>>>
>>>           self  a MARelationParser
>>>           temps
>>>           anInteger     0
>>>           inst vars
>>>           scanner       a MARelationScanner
>>>           currentToken  {(5,4,#(30))}
>>>           errorToken    {(5,4,#(30))}
>>>           stateStack    an OrderedCollection(1 13)
>>>           nodeStack     an OrderedCollection(#test)
>>>
>>>     * MARelationParser(SmaCCParser)>>handleError:
>>>
>>>           self  a MARelationParser
>>>           temps
>>>           anInteger     0
>>>           inst vars
>>>           scanner       a MARelationScanner
>>>           currentToken  {(5,4,#(30))}
>>>           errorToken    {(5,4,#(30))}
>>>           stateStack    an OrderedCollection(1 13)
>>>           nodeStack     an OrderedCollection(#test)
>>>
>>>     * MARelationParser(SmaCCParser)>>performParsingLoop
>>>
>>>           self  a MARelationParser
>>>           temps
>>>           action        0
>>>           actionType    3
>>>           inst vars
>>>           scanner       a MARelationScanner
>>>           currentToken  {(5,4,#(30))}
>>>           errorToken    {(5,4,#(30))}
>>>           stateStack    an OrderedCollection(1 13)
>>>           nodeStack     an OrderedCollection(#test)
>>>
>>>     * MARelationParser(SmaCCParser)>>parse
>>>
>>>           self  a MARelationParser
>>>           temps
>>>           inst vars
>>>           scanner       a MARelationScanner
>>>           currentToken  {(5,4,#(30))}
>>>           errorToken    {(5,4,#(30))}
>>>           stateStack    an OrderedCollection(1 13)
>>>           nodeStack     an OrderedCollection(#test)
>>>
>>> Is there an easy fix for this?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Chad
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lukas Renggli
>> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>
> -- 
> Lukas Renggli
> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki



From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Sat Feb 11 11:08:28 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 11:08:28 +0100
Subject: Pier Search Component
In-Reply-To: <7410773D-7040-40B2-B636-E2BC39423F1C@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <3de931600602100535n27b166eci9b7d839246d10ccc@mail.gmail.com>
	<67628d690602100914p1adde9a9ld7e914ee27ec0af2@mail.gmail.com>
	<45DE7D14-C394-4A5A-A107-D8E0FFC62522@iam.unibe.ch>
	<7410773D-7040-40B2-B636-E2BC39423F1C@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <7A219C63-3C5E-4230-B35D-93949414A09A@iam.unibe.ch>

> Lukas I will try to get some guys defining an advanced query
> component based on the previous meta model oriented query engine....

Yes, that would be interesting, since you can't expect a visitor of a  
web-site to be able to use a sort of query language. It can be  
interesting for administrators however, that want to look for very  
specific sites such as pages that have specific external links, or  
tables with more than 10 rows, or ...

It would be cool if the queries could be specified using a simple  
user-interface, that would allow you to specify the conditions using  
drop-downs, similar to what you have in Apple Mail, iTunes or in the  
Finder. I guess it would be too easy for a student project, I could  
come up with something simple in one afternoon, the meta-model is  
already there after all ... ;-)

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From cbeler at enit.fr  Tue Feb 14 15:53:47 2006
From: cbeler at enit.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?C=E9drick_B=E9ler?=)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:53:47 +0100
Subject: description translation
Message-ID: <43F1EEFB.4010200@enit.fr>

Is it easy to associate different language for description - (to 
automatically translate a UI ?)
It's mainly all a question of String translation, maybe we can use the 
message translated ... but where to store the different values ...

Is it feasible ?

Cheers

C?drick

From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Tue Feb 14 16:11:52 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 16:11:52 +0100
Subject: description translation
In-Reply-To: <43F1EEFB.4010200@enit.fr>
References: <43F1EEFB.4010200@enit.fr>
Message-ID: <087EF6F6-CAAB-4701-8121-C995A5C5F077@iam.unibe.ch>

> Is it easy to associate different language for description - (to
> automatically translate a UI ?)
> It's mainly all a question of String translation, maybe we can use the
> message translated ... but where to store the different values ...
>
> Is it feasible ?

Yes, this is feasible easily. There is no direct support in Magritte  
or Pier itself, but that can be done with your preferred string  
translating framework.

What we usually do at netstyle.ch is to have a special special class  
TranslatedString that provides the same interface as the String  
class, but consists of a collection of translated strings. Depending  
on the selected language in the session, the TranslatedString  
instance behaves like one of its containing strings. This approach  
works well with Magritte.

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From cbeler at enit.fr  Tue Feb 14 17:11:56 2006
From: cbeler at enit.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?C=E9drick_B=E9ler?=)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 17:11:56 +0100
Subject: description translation
In-Reply-To: <087EF6F6-CAAB-4701-8121-C995A5C5F077@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <43F1EEFB.4010200@enit.fr>
	<087EF6F6-CAAB-4701-8121-C995A5C5F077@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <43F2014C.9020909@enit.fr>


>
>What we usually do at netstyle.ch is to have a special special class  
>TranslatedString that provides the same interface as the String  
>class, but consists of a collection of translated strings. Depending  
>on the selected language in the session, the TranslatedString  
>instance behaves like one of its containing strings. This approach  
>works well with Magritte.
>
When time comes, I ll try that... not very clear for me right now...
is there a message that is applied to a string...
like  'class' translated
or does it mean instead of assiocating a string to a label or options 
or... we associate an instance of a TranslatedString (in this case, do 
you use a shortcut constructor method)
or maybe this is something like
'text' creates a TranlatedString if defined and behave like a string ?

C?drick

From renggli at gmail.com  Tue Feb 14 23:18:11 2006
From: renggli at gmail.com (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 23:18:11 +0100
Subject: Magritte
In-Reply-To: <17c65a8d0602140534r2daec5e5ma6a16c03db8fa23d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <17c65a8d0602140534r2daec5e5ma6a16c03db8fa23d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67628d690602141418m39946c94o29b576bda9f69744@mail.gmail.com>

> 1 - Does Magritte allow describing how objects relate to each other in terms
> of ownership? For example, an address might be "privately owned" by a
> person, and a method is "privately owned" by a class. On the other hand, a
> person might "refer" to a birth country, but does not own this country.

No, there is no such metaphor (yet). It probably comes closest to the
property #persistent with the two states #bePersistent and
#beEphemeral.

> a - Subclass ElementDesc and add a Ownership hierarchy.
>
> b - Add some new property on RelationDesc to store type of ownership.

I would go for b, as I don't see a reason why to introduce a new
Ownership hierarchy.

> 2 - I notice that extra support has been added to build GUIs and Seaside web
> pages. Will this code be separated in they own packages, so that it is
> possible to only load the "core" Magritte framework into an image? Then,
> making new support code (for example building Pollock forms) should be
> easier, as one can follow the pattern in your support code, and no
> modification to the core Magritte is needed.

Yes, this is already the case. You can load Magritte-Core and you just
get the model. Loading Magritte-Seaside loads the Seaside support,
loading Magritte-Morphic loads the Morphic support, loading
Magritte-Tests loads the tests, etc. The repository with all packages
is available at: <http://mc.lukas-renggli.ch/magritte.html>.

> 3 - Do you have any plans for porting the framework to VisualWorks?
> Good luck with your work! It would be nice if you could make one single
> framework that can be used for automatic GUI building, domain object
> validation, relational persistency framework, web services, and other
> systems requiring description of the domain.

I was asked about a VisualWorks version already several times. Some
time ago I adapted the exporter that Seaside is using to Magritte and
Pier. Moreover while writing the code I payed attention not to use
Squeak specific features, unfortunately there are a few problems that
are not that simple to solve (#initialize and streams).

With the help of the tests it should be possible to do a complete port
in one day, however I can't do it myself: Magritte and Pier are
basically a single-man project and I don't have the time to
concentrate on other things beside my master-thesis right now.
Contributors are of course welcome in all areas (porting, extending,
testing, documentation, ...)!

Thanks for your comments,
Lukas

On 2/14/06, Runar Jordahl <runar.jordahl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I read about Magritte at
> <http://www.lukas-renggli.ch/seaside/annecy/Magritte.pdf>
> and have a few questions, which I would be thankful if you could answer.
>
> 1 - Does Magritte allow describing how objects relate to each other in terms
> of ownership? For example, an address might be "privately owned" by a
> person, and a method is "privately owned" by a class. On the other hand, a
> person might "refer" to a birth country, but does not own this country.
>
> In order to make such a description, I can see two solutions:
>
> a - Subclass ElementDesc and add a Ownership hierarchy.
>
> b - Add some new property on RelationDesc to store type of ownership.
>
> I ask, as describing such relationship between objects can be helpful when
> copying them (where to stop copying), deciding where a version field should
> be located (at the top object), and when deleting from a relational database
> (delete recursively all "privately owned" objects).
>
> I remember TopLink had such a property in its descriptor.
>
> 2 - I notice that extra support has been added to build GUIs and Seaside web
> pages. Will this code be separated in they own packages, so that it is
> possible to only load the "core" Magritte framework into an image? Then,
> making new support code (for example building Pollock forms) should be
> easier, as one can follow the pattern in your support code, and no
> modification to the core Magritte is needed.
>
> 3 - Do you have any plans for porting the framework to VisualWorks?
> Good luck with your work! It would be nice if you could make one single
> framework that can be used for automatic GUI building, domain object
> validation, relational persistency framework, web services, and other
> systems requiring description of the domain.
>
> Kind regards
> Runar Jordahl


--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch


From renggli at gmail.com  Thu Feb 16 01:09:21 2006
From: renggli at gmail.com (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 01:09:21 +0100
Subject: Magritte
In-Reply-To: <17c65a8d0602150103i5868c99bg22487588fa77635d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <17c65a8d0602140534r2daec5e5ma6a16c03db8fa23d@mail.gmail.com>
	<67628d690602141418m39946c94o29b576bda9f69744@mail.gmail.com>
	<17c65a8d0602150103i5868c99bg22487588fa77635d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67628d690602151609m27d935d4ma648ab4b59000b89@mail.gmail.com>

> Thinking more about this, I would actually go for a :-) It would be nice if
> other developers could use your framework to make *any* description they
> like, without needing to modify the core framework. Below I outline how it
> could be done:
>
> [snip]

Ok, I understand. a might be a good approach indeed, if you actually
want to modify existing behavior/visitors. By dispatching trough your
owner-ship hierarchy this will be easily possible without the need to
modify the core. I only thought about adding an extra attribute as a
class-extension, but now I understand that you need to modify existing
functionality as well ... ;-)

> I would not expect that the core framework would need many modifications in
> order to get this working. The added value would be large. Other developers
> could simply subclass Description, and use these.

If you think the ownership (or something else that is missing) should
go into the core, you can directly modify the framework and submit to
my repository. If you register at <http://mc.lukas-renggli.ch>, I will
add you as a developer to the Magritte project.

Cheers,
Lukas

On 2/15/06, Runar Jordahl <runar.jordahl at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you for your answer. Please read my comments below.
>
>
> On 2/14/06, Lukas Renggli <renggli at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > a - Subclass ElementDesc and add a Ownership hierarchy.
> > >
> > > b - Add some new property on RelationDesc to store type of ownership.
> >
> > I would go for b, as I don't see a reason why to introduce a new
> > Ownership hierarchy.
>
>
> Thinking more about this, I would actually go for a :-) It would be nice if
> other developers could use your framework to make *any* description they
> like, without needing to modify the core framework. Below I outline how it
> could be done:
>
>
> Page 24 of
> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch/seaside/annecy/Magritte.pdf
> shows how Container has many "children" of type ElementDesc. Now, this leads
> me to think (or hope) that Magritte can create a Description being type
> "Container" for a single method (Accessor).
>
> Below I give an example of how a description for phone numbers could be
> marked being private using a new description class named
> MAOwnershipDescription. (Note that this class could have been added outside
> the core framework.)
>
> RunarPersonModel class>>descriptionPhoneNumbers
>   ^(MAOneToManyRelationDescription auto: 'phoneNumbers'
> label: 'P. Numbers')
> classes: (Array with: RunarPhoneNumber);
> default: Array new;
> yourself) ,
>    (RunarOwnershipDescription isPrivate: true)
>
> Just like "ZeroDivide , RangeError" creates an ExceptionSet (at least in
> VisualWorks), the message #, in the statement above will create a Container
> having two children. If this was used, developers could combine various
> descriptors for a *single* property. They could mix the descriptions in the
> core framework with their own, specialized descriptions.
>
> Accessing the descriptions will need specialised methods to get only one (or
> a set of) types. This is similar to how handling exceptions is done. An
> example could be accessing all ElementDesc (and subclasses), and sending
> #validate to them:
>
> aDescption on: ElementDesc do: [:anElementDesc | anElementDes validate]
>
> I would not expect that the core framework would need many modifications in
> order to get this working. The added value would be large. Other developers
> could simply subclass Description, and use these.
>
>
> Kind regards
>
> Runar Jordahl
>


--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch


From tgkuo at ms22.hinet.net  Thu Feb 16 02:46:43 2006
From: tgkuo at ms22.hinet.net (tgkuo)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 09:46:43 +0800
Subject: [Pier] How to enable safety
Message-ID: <51l7v1pqsn435k51p48jam7otgrmem7d9a@4ax.com>

Hi, 
    I'm running a Seaside/Pier web site. Overall, the wiki/kernel
framework is cool, as I knew, it can support security and had object
storage solution, thanks to added-on Krypon/Magma packages, but for
the time being in current versions, I can not find the way to disable
the edit function in the frontpages, i.e. anyone can edit my pages
without the need to log in. 
   I noticed that the edit function was disable as default in old
versions but it is open now. It might be a silly question, but how to
re-enable the log-in as default? 

TIA

tkkuo


From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Thu Feb 16 10:15:10 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 10:15:10 +0100
Subject: [Pier] How to enable safety
In-Reply-To: <51l7v1pqsn435k51p48jam7otgrmem7d9a@4ax.com>
References: <51l7v1pqsn435k51p48jam7otgrmem7d9a@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <DA647450-CB24-4391-9B90-4F5360CB199D@iam.unibe.ch>

Hi,

>     I'm running a Seaside/Pier web site. Overall, the wiki/kernel
> framework is cool, as I knew, it can support security and had object
> storage solution, thanks to added-on Krypon/Magma packages, but for
> the time being in current versions, I can not find the way to disable
> the edit function in the frontpages, i.e. anyone can edit my pages
> without the need to log in.

what security framework are you using? The Access-Control-List (ACL)  
of Philippe Marschall or the Unix Permissions based one that I wrote?  
At least with my framework I know it is possible to disable editing  
the root page, by removing the edit-permissions of 'others' ...

It is very interesting that you are using Krypon/Magma together with  
Pier. Do you have any code to share? What is your server-setup?

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From renggli at gmail.com  Thu Feb 16 11:31:35 2006
From: renggli at gmail.com (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 11:31:35 +0100
Subject: Magritte
In-Reply-To: <17c65a8d0602160129j2b9a074dl75cb4f46eee01307@mail.gmail.com>
References: <17c65a8d0602140534r2daec5e5ma6a16c03db8fa23d@mail.gmail.com>
	<67628d690602141418m39946c94o29b576bda9f69744@mail.gmail.com>
	<17c65a8d0602150103i5868c99bg22487588fa77635d@mail.gmail.com>
	<67628d690602151609m27d935d4ma648ab4b59000b89@mail.gmail.com>
	<17c65a8d0602160129j2b9a074dl75cb4f46eee01307@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67628d690602160231x3bf76d9bha1ca3d3d3e203e2e@mail.gmail.com>

> "A framework for describing the types held by domain classes. This includes
> describing both basic units (like Booleans, numbers, and strings) and
> contents of collections. The framework also allows describing tolerated
> values in individual variables."

Yes, and also some basic relationship between described objects (has
to be improved as well).

For now I didn't add anything to Magritte that I didn't require in one
of my own projects. There are a couple of productive applications
using Magritte, as you can see in the slides. Obviously there are gaps
that need to be filled by other developers and their particular needs,
so this is really an open project that anybody can contribute.

> Thank you for being willing to add me as a developer. Please note that I
> will not submit any changes before you have agreed to them. If I look at
> doing any changes, it will be the ones I described in my last e-mail.

I've added you as developer to the "Magritte" (the core framework) and
"Magritte Add-Ons" (for small add-ons) project, so you can directly
publish there. If you want to keep your package in your own repository
you might want to create a new project and only commit the
fixes/modification that need to go into the core to the other
repositories.

Actually I don't mind if you publish your changes into "Magritte":
from time to time I will review them, maybe discuss with you and
eventually merge them into my image. The official versions known to be
usable are always on SqueakMap, anybody that is directly using code
from my repositories knows about the fact that it might be broken,
incompatible, change, etc.

> Which version of Squeak would you recommend using for Magritte?

I am currently working with Squeak 3.8. If you prefer 3.7 or 3.9
should be fine too. There are some tests that break in some versions
of Squeak, but this is not really a big deal.

Locking forward seeing your commits ;-)

Btw, there is a mailing-list at
<http://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki>, that might be a
good place to further discuss about Magritte, etc.

Lukas

On 2/16/06, Runar Jordahl <runar.jordahl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Thank you for your answer.
>
>
>
> I think the current version of Magritte sums up to:
>
>
>
> "A framework for describing the types held by domain classes. This includes
> describing both basic units (like Booleans, numbers, and strings) and
> contents of collections. The framework also allows describing tolerated
> values in individual variables."
>
>
>
> From the presentation, I think Magritte is well-designed for doing this
> task. ElementDesc forms the superclass for these descriptions. Looking at
> the diagrams, it is easy to understand the design and how it is to be used.
> In my mind, this should not be changed. The core should probably not be
> messed up by introducing new information (like privately owned etc.) just
> because one developer has this need. I think if such a philosophy were
> followed, you would quickly see your well-designed classes cluttered. The
> core (ElementDesc) should stay like it is: "A system for describing types".
>
>
>
> Thank you for being willing to add me as a developer. Please note that I
> will not submit any changes before you have agreed to them. If I look at
> doing any changes, it will be the ones I described in my last e-mail.
>
>
>  Which version of Squeak would you recommend using for Magritte?
>
>  Kind regards
>  Runar Jordahl


--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch


From damien.cassou at laposte.net  Fri Feb 17 16:42:44 2006
From: damien.cassou at laposte.net (Damien Cassou)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 16:42:44 +0100
Subject: #asCondition
Message-ID: <43F5EEF4.3020908@laposte.net>

Hi,

I don't understand why the following code returns 'false':

[:aPerson |
   (aPerson description
        collect: [:desc | (desc toString: (aPerson readUsing: desc))])
    anySatisfy: [:value | value matches: 'France']] asCondition


Is it because my code is not understood by the parser ?

-- 
Damien Cassou

CSS3 :  "On passe au  HSL, plus intuitif  et moins orient? CRT  que le
RGB. Il y a du HSLA". Et en plus, ?a veut dire quelque chose (au moins
pour l'auteur) !

From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Fri Feb 17 17:14:46 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 17:14:46 +0100
Subject: #asCondition
In-Reply-To: <43F5EEF4.3020908@laposte.net>
References: <43F5EEF4.3020908@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <D80E7274-01C6-48E7-B3C2-EE4CE369E71D@iam.unibe.ch>

> I don't understand why the following code returns 'false':
>
> [:aPerson |
>    (aPerson description
>         collect: [:desc | (desc toString: (aPerson readUsing: desc))])
>     anySatisfy: [:value | value matches: 'France']] asCondition
>
> Is it because my code is not understood by the parser ?

Yes, it uses blocks.

Try as condition:

[ :person | person isFrance ]
      asCondition.

And as implementation:

Person>>isFrance
     (self description
         collect: [ :desc | (desc toString: (self readUsing: desc)) ])
         anySatisfy: [ :value | value matches: 'France' ].

You can easily check if everything is ok with your conditions, if you  
explore them:

[ :person | person isFrance ]
     asConditon explore

If you don't want to store your descriptions externally  
(ReferenceStreams, Magma, OmniBase, ...) you can also use plain  
blocks, that is maybe easier most of the time.

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From damien.cassou at laposte.net  Fri Feb 17 17:14:10 2006
From: damien.cassou at laposte.net (Damien Cassou)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 17:14:10 +0100
Subject: MABlockToCondition
Message-ID: <43F5F652.9010306@laposte.net>

Hi,

I don't understand why there is #isZero, #beginsWith:, #isNil and the 
others coded in MABlockToCondition. If I understand well, this method 
are not needed due to the #doesNotUnderstand: method which does exactly 
the same thing.

Bye

-- 
Damien Cassou

CSS3 :  "On passe au  HSL, plus intuitif  et moins orient? CRT  que le
RGB. Il y a du HSLA". Et en plus, ?a veut dire quelque chose (au moins
pour l'auteur) !

From damien.cassou at laposte.net  Fri Feb 17 17:47:50 2006
From: damien.cassou at laposte.net (Damien Cassou)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 17:47:50 +0100
Subject: #asCondition
In-Reply-To: <D80E7274-01C6-48E7-B3C2-EE4CE369E71D@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <43F5EEF4.3020908@laposte.net>
	<D80E7274-01C6-48E7-B3C2-EE4CE369E71D@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <43F5FE36.4050807@laposte.net>

> If you don't want to store your descriptions externally  
> (ReferenceStreams, Magma, OmniBase, ...) you can also use plain  
> blocks, that is maybe easier most of the time.

When does one would want to store his descriptions ?

-- 
Damien Cassou

CSS3 :  "On passe au  HSL, plus intuitif  et moins orient? CRT  que le
RGB. Il y a du HSLA". Et en plus, ?a veut dire quelque chose (au moins
pour l'auteur) !

From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Fri Feb 17 19:24:58 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 19:24:58 +0100
Subject: #asCondition
In-Reply-To: <43F5FE36.4050807@laposte.net>
References: <43F5EEF4.3020908@laposte.net>
	<D80E7274-01C6-48E7-B3C2-EE4CE369E71D@iam.unibe.ch>
	<43F5FE36.4050807@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <DFC7FDEC-CCD4-4D04-AE6A-A63EF1781035@iam.unibe.ch>

>> If you don't want to store your descriptions externally
>> (ReferenceStreams, Magma, OmniBase, ...) you can also use plain
>> blocks, that is maybe easier most of the time.
>
> When does one would want to store his descriptions ?

If you let your end-users build their own forms.

We once wrote a workflow definition and runtime engine at nestyle.ch  
using Magritte, where the users could build their own forms and  
define validation conditions on the form elements, all  from the web- 
browser without programming knowledge. The meta-model is then stored  
in OmniBase. That's way I payed so much attention to make everything  
serialize-able. That being possible is one of the key advantages of  
Magritte over other meta frameworks, e.g., Mewa expects a lot of  
blocks everywhere.

As I said previously, you are not forced to worry about theses  
things, it is more of a technical than a design question: since I  
this is Smalltalk you can exchange conditions and use block-closures  
polymorphic. Each of the approaches has its own (dis-)advantages.

Lukas

>
> -- 
> Damien Cassou
>
> CSS3 :  "On passe au  HSL, plus intuitif  et moins orient? CRT  que le
> RGB. Il y a du HSLA". Et en plus, ?a veut dire quelque chose (au moins
> pour l'auteur) !
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch




From rleon at insario.com  Fri Feb 17 19:39:37 2006
From: rleon at insario.com (Ramon Leon)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 11:39:37 -0700
Subject: #asCondition
Message-ID: <24C40DFA333DC44882F9FB0115F33D8F49A042@ARGON.insario.local>

> >
> > When does one would want to store his descriptions ?
> 
> If you let your end-users build their own forms.
> 
> We once wrote a workflow definition and runtime engine at 
> nestyle.ch using Magritte, where the users could build their 
> own forms and define validation conditions on the form 
> elements, all  from the web- browser without programming 
> knowledge. The meta-model is then stored in OmniBase. That's 
> way I payed so much attention to make everything 
> serialize-able. That being possible is one of the key 
> advantages of Magritte over other meta frameworks, e.g., Mewa 
> expects a lot of blocks everywhere.
> 

Which is exactly what I like, and plan on doing with magritte, you
wouldn't want to share any of that would you?


From btaylor at healthauditors.com  Sat Feb 18 00:04:37 2006
From: btaylor at healthauditors.com (Brett R. Taylor)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:04:37 -0800
Subject: Production Ready SmallWiki[n]?
In-Reply-To: <43F5EEF4.3020908@laposte.net>
References: <43F5EEF4.3020908@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <43F65685.6050108@healthauditors.com>

Is there a version of Smallwiki that is ready for production?  If not, 
can anyone recommend a stable Smalltalk based wiki?
Brett

From tgkuo at ms22.hinet.net  Thu Feb 16 14:44:17 2006
From: tgkuo at ms22.hinet.net (tgkuo)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 21:44:17 +0800
Subject: [Smallwiki] Re: [Pier] How to enable safety
In-Reply-To: <DA647450-CB24-4391-9B90-4F5360CB199D@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <51l7v1pqsn435k51p48jam7otgrmem7d9a@4ax.com>
	<DA647450-CB24-4391-9B90-4F5360CB199D@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <kuv8v15da51g50i5l9rj0ffg2hsp6bmgm1@4ax.com>

Hi, 
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 10:15:10 +0100, you wrote:
>what security framework are you using? The Access-Control-List (ACL)  
>of Philippe Marschall or the Unix Permissions based one that I wrote?  
  I didn't use any kinds of security measures that you mentioned,
since I'm running the Squeak3.9a-6724 image on my WindowsXP box. 
Spielverderber from Philippe Marschall seemed not worked on
Squeak3.9a.

>At least with my framework I know it is possible to disable editing  
>the root page, by removing the edit-permissions of 'others' ...
Yes, my wish is just plainly to let the root page show no Edit tab,
you had to do some authentication such as logging in to enable it. 
But how?

>
>It is very interesting that you are using Krypon/Magma together with  
>Pier. Do you have any code to share? What is your server-setup?
I just install those packages in Seaside, but had no time yet to study
them, read the on-line documetation or write down real-world codes
upon it but I hope it will be included inside Seaside as default
security measures. I currently use OmniBase to store the kernels. 

Best regards.
Tk Kuo


From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Sat Feb 18 00:22:04 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 00:22:04 +0100
Subject: Production Ready SmallWiki[n]?
In-Reply-To: <43F65685.6050108@healthauditors.com>
References: <43F5EEF4.3020908@laposte.net>
	<43F65685.6050108@healthauditors.com>
Message-ID: <8FFB2C6F-CC0A-4A18-AE14-24ED6071660E@iam.unibe.ch>

> Is there a version of Smallwiki that is ready for production?  If not,
> can anyone recommend a stable Smalltalk based wiki?

That depends on what Smalltalk you want to run SmallWiki on: Squeak  
or VisualWorks?

The wikis I know of are listed at <http://smallwiki.unibe.ch>, please  
add your instances if you know more:

http://www.squeak.org
http://www.seaside.st
http://www.esug.org
http://kilana.unibe.ch/lmo2005/
http://www.squeak.de/
http://www.wiresong.ca/Monticello/
http://www.hans-n-beck.org/
http://prog2.vub.ac.be:8080/esug2005/
http://box1.squeakfoundation.org:7777/
http://www.kita-st-anna.de/
http://www.tierpark-koethen.de/
http://decomp.ulb.ac.be/
http://decomp.ulb.ac.be/roelwuyts/
http://restructuring.ulb.ac.be/
http://tweak.impara.de/

Please note that I am not working on SmallWiki anymore, however there  
are a couple of other people working on it, so they might know better  
what version to use the best.

Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

From saidani at squeakfr.org  Sat Feb 18 01:10:22 2006
From: saidani at squeakfr.org (Samir Saidani)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 01:10:22 +0100
Subject: [ANN] SmallWiki-stable release
Message-ID: <87bqx5sf0x.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>

Hi,

I've just posted on squeakmap a stable release of smallwiki for Squeak
3.6 only, which is basically the same one used for
www.squeak.org. This release is a "one-click" install - "ready for
contribution" release both for users and developers, which means that
you don't need to bother about dependencies. The unstable one - called
Smallwiki - is for Squeak 3.7 and 3.8. This unstable one should
probably be renamed Smallwiki-unstable (sorry, don't have the
login/pass to do it - Lukas ?).

Users : just install this version and follows the instruction in the
smallwiki readme.

Developers : install this version, you will see on monticello all
packages from which smallwiki depends (NamedServices, KomHttp and so
one). The repository is in global read/write access, so you don't need
to ask for permission to contribute to smallwiki. So please consider
that this is a great responsability : you should read carefully the
"how to contribute" proposal (www.squeaksource.com/smallwiki1). Please
post to the smallwiki list for any comments. The current
smallwiki-stable release is based on the Chris port version 0.9.23-6
whereas the unstable one is based on 0.9.53.

Developers - bis : 

How to keep the "one-click" installation both for developers and users
?  Answer: When releasing a new SW version, we should for the moment
update the modified package plus its dependent packages - maybe there
is a way to automate (TODO) that through MCConfiguration but I don't
know how to do that. For instance, a modification of SmallWiki-Kernel
implies a dependency update of SmallWiki-Parser + SmallWiki-Stable.

Thanks !
Samir

From saidani at squeakfr.org  Sat Feb 18 01:22:44 2006
From: saidani at squeakfr.org (Samir Saidani)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 01:22:44 +0100
Subject: SmallWiki on VW : how to get it working.
Message-ID: <877j7tsegb.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>

Hi,

It was quite painful to get the latest SW visualworks release working
! Takes me hours... Here was how I proceed... Maybe there is a more
straightforward way to do it, please share it if you know...

First you need an account to the scg store because you will need to
play between the scg store and VW stores to load correct dependencies.

Then :

- Load Smallwiki from Cincom Store

- Load from Cincom Store URISupport (because we need HttpURL in HTTP
  parcel)

- Then from Scg Store load Swazoo 1.5.1 (scg) and SmaCC Cincom3.1
  (scg)

- Then you have to correct the bug inside ValueWithParam>>resetParam :
  replace Struct new by Protocols.Struct new. (as far as I remember !)

- Finally SwazooServer startOn: 8080 should work.

TODO: create a correct bundle (don't know how to do it for the
moment), or Smallwiki visualworks version can be considered as
unusuable.

Samir

From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Sat Feb 18 08:59:30 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 08:59:30 +0100
Subject: [ANN] SmallWiki-stable release
In-Reply-To: <87bqx5sf0x.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>
References: <87bqx5sf0x.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>
Message-ID: <F2FCD5BC-F809-44FC-BA29-915C8FC2CD5F@iam.unibe.ch>

Hi Samir,

great news, thanks for creating this package!

> you don't need to bother about dependencies. The unstable one - called
> Smallwiki - is for Squeak 3.7 and 3.8. This unstable one should
> probably be renamed Smallwiki-unstable (sorry, don't have the
> login/pass to do it - Lukas ?).

Me neither, I am just listed as author, not owner or maintainer. So I  
am unable to change that. Chris can you do it?

> to ask for permission to contribute to smallwiki. So please consider
> that this is a great responsability : you should read carefully the
> "how to contribute" proposal (www.squeaksource.com/smallwiki1). Please
> post to the smallwiki list for any comments. The current
> smallwiki-stable release is based on the Chris port version 0.9.23-6
> whereas the unstable one is based on 0.9.53.

I will try to install it. I am especially interested into those  
comments. Mind you if I reuse them for Pier?

Thank,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Sat Feb 18 09:04:22 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:04:22 +0100
Subject: SmallWiki on VW : how to get it working.
In-Reply-To: <877j7tsegb.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>
References: <877j7tsegb.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>
Message-ID: <71F2E972-D715-4703-B3FA-2E8FD2D09FEA@iam.unibe.ch>

Hi Samir,

> - Load Smallwiki from Cincom Store

what version did you use? The last one I published is known to work  
at least with VisualWorks 7.1 and 7.2 and Swazoo from that time.

Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From renggli at gmail.com  Sat Feb 18 10:12:42 2006
From: renggli at gmail.com (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 10:12:42 +0100
Subject: [ANN] SmallWiki-stable release
In-Reply-To: <43F681EA.6030303@sonaural.com>
References: <87bqx5sf0x.fsf@info.unicaen.fr> <43F681EA.6030303@sonaural.com>
Message-ID: <67628d690602180112x3248f66dlafae42fb975b8bcc@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Brad,

> Is their doc someplace that shows the difference between SmallWiki and
> Pier? Or are they really two different animals?
> ( I did look here: http://kilana.unibe.ch:9090/SmallWiki

Pier (formerly known as SmallWiki 2) is what I started to work on
after SmallWiki 1. They certainly share some code and are similar in
some parts, but after all Pier has been rewritten from scratch. While
SmallWiki 1 was designed to be used as a well tested and extensible
Wiki implementation in Smalltalk, people started to use it as a CMS
(Content Management System), e.g., <http://www.squeak.org/> and
<http://www.esug.org>. In my opinion there is not much differencen
between a CMS and a Wiki, for the CMS this are mostly a few additional
tools and that you don't grant the edit permission to everybody in a
CMS. Pier has been designed with the CMS in mind -- and it turned out
to be even more: it can also be seen as an application development
framework on top of Seaside ...

So what is the difference to Pier then?

* The code-base of Pier is much cleaner than one of SmallWiki 1. There
is strict separation between the model and its views, they are all in
different packages and can be loaded independently. There are
currently two views available, the default one working with Seaside
and one using OmniBrowser and Morphic Squeak.

* Pier is based on the Magritte meta-model, what makes it very easy to
extend and query the system. E.g., imagine that you want to store a
small comment for all the edit operations, the only thing you need to
do is to add a string-description to the edit command and immediately
all parts of Pier will be aware of this new feature: all the edit
views for Seaside and Morphic display a new input field, the history
displays the additional field, the query engine and the persistency
will consider the new field, etc.

* Pier has got 5 times more tests than SmallWiki, not counting the
1500 of Magritte.

* Pier uses a similar document representation as SmallWiki, the wiki
syntax for both is similar to the one of SWiki. Again there is a SmaCC
parser that builds an AST of the document that can be easily visited
and transformed to HTML (Seaside), Latex (Documentation), morphic
text, plain text, etc.

* Pier uses a prevalence based history and snapshot mechanism. This
part is not quite finished/proved, serialization is quite tricky after
all, especially if the objects change during development. There was
someone that reported he stored the model in OmniBase. For me I am
currently just saving the image ;-)

* Pier uses Seaside as default view, as opposed to the stateless
approach with Swazoo in SmallWiki. This makes it very easy to plug any
Seaside application into pier, or to plug Pier into any of your
Seaside applications. Navigation tree that remember open nodes are
just a breeze. Ajax is cool with Pier. All links in are bookmark-able,
of course ...

There are certainly more differences, but I guess I wrote down the
most important ones ...

Cheers,
Lukas

--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch


From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Sat Feb 18 11:58:46 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 11:58:46 +0100
Subject: SmallWiki on VW : how to get it working.
In-Reply-To: <71F2E972-D715-4703-B3FA-2E8FD2D09FEA@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <877j7tsegb.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>
	<71F2E972-D715-4703-B3FA-2E8FD2D09FEA@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <D876175C-9B45-42A8-AA25-C9B07A7F45AD@iam.unibe.ch>

>> - Load Smallwiki from Cincom Store
>
> what version did you use? The last one I published is known to work
> at least with VisualWorks 7.1 and 7.2 and Swazoo from that time.

I just loaded SmallWiki 1 (0.9.51,lukas) from CincomStore into  
VisualWorks 7.4 and everything worked out of the box: no need to load  
extra packages, no need to fix dependencies, etc.

Ok, there was a debugger popping up sometime during loading with an  
unsatisfiable dependency: I just hit proceed and it worked.

> TODO: create a correct bundle (don't know how to do it for the
> moment), or Smallwiki visualworks version can be considered as
> unusuable.

I consider it as stable ;-)

I changed the blessing level to make people aware of the debugger.

Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From ducasse at iam.unibe.ch  Sat Feb 18 13:31:13 2006
From: ducasse at iam.unibe.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?st=E9phane_ducasse?=)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 13:31:13 +0100
Subject: [ANN] SmallWiki-stable release
In-Reply-To: <87bqx5sf0x.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>
References: <87bqx5sf0x.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>
Message-ID: <1912B4F0-ABF7-4628-B93C-4E30A2F13772@iam.unibe.ch>

> How to keep the "one-click" installation both for developers and users
> ?  Answer: When releasing a new SW version, we should for the moment
> update the modified package plus its dependent packages - maybe there
> is a way to automate (TODO) that through MCConfiguration but I don't
> know how to do that. For instance, a modification of SmallWiki-Kernel
> implies a dependency update of SmallWiki-Parser + SmallWiki-Stable.


Samir
the pattern is to have one package with no code and just dependent  
packages.
Each time a package is modified: you version the main one and all the  
dependents
will be versioned too. I would not have internal dependencies between  
the packages
only between the top package and its component (this is a well-know  
approach: if
you hardcode dependencies between the local package then one day you  
will be blocked
because one app will be X-1.22 and the other X-.13 and in VW you  
could not load them
and get stuck). Read the blog of Cess on LineUp this is exactly the  
idea and we got burned
by VW package dependencies. Now we do not use them anymore.

This way you have a kind of specification of what are the packages  
working together.

Stef

From renggli at gmail.com  Sat Feb 18 17:54:13 2006
From: renggli at gmail.com (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 17:54:13 +0100
Subject: Installation of Pier
In-Reply-To: <1609391017-1140262260-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-24462-@engine21-cell01.bwc.produk.on.blackberry>
References: <1609391017-1140262260-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-24462-@engine21-cell01.bwc.produk.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <67628d690602180854j6bd64fcfk47eecb8c49e08c2f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Frank,

> I've tryed to install pier from your squeakmap
> repository. First I take a fresh Seaside-image from
> Seaside-website and after this a load the packages
> Margrit and Pier with  monticello. After restart the image
> I tryed to start Seaside-pier in the webbrowswer. There
> an error comes up with a message not understood of
> an class from Seaside. So I think it is an version-problem
> with seaside. What package versiion (mcz) you use for
> the actual version of pier?

just load the Pier package from SqueakMap into a fresh 3.8 image. It
will automatically load all required prerequisites such as Kom,
Seaside, Magritte, etc.

Lukas

--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch


From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Sat Feb 18 23:45:38 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 23:45:38 +0100
Subject: SmallWiki on VW : how to get it working.
In-Reply-To: <871wy0jy4w.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>
References: <877j7tsegb.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>
	<71F2E972-D715-4703-B3FA-2E8FD2D09FEA@iam.unibe.ch>
	<D876175C-9B45-42A8-AA25-C9B07A7F45AD@iam.unibe.ch>
	<871wy0jy4w.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>
Message-ID: <FB7911DA-2ABC-48A4-8D3C-9AF24EE9110A@iam.unibe.ch>

> Can you try with vw7.1 ? It doesn't work out of the box with the  
> latest version (0.9.53) from CincomStore, and a user will probably  
> choose the latest version...

0.9.53 doesn't work in VisualWorks 7.4 either. I don't know the  
person that published those changes, there seems to be quite a lot of  
changes to 0.9.51 after all.

What I also observed is that it depends on a lot of different  
extension packages, that are not part of the core system. Especially  
there is a dependency to a security package that is known not to work  
and that overrides critical methods within the core!

I blessed 0.9.51 as released, people should use this version if they  
need something stable. Afterward they can always try to load some  
extensions manually, if the like.

Maybe the publishers of 0.9.52 and 0.9.53 know more what they changed  
and why it is not working out of the box?

Lukas

>>>> - Load Smallwiki from Cincom Store
>>>
>>> what version did you use? The last one I published is known to work
>>> at least with VisualWorks 7.1 and 7.2 and Swazoo from that time.
>>
>> I just loaded SmallWiki 1 (0.9.51,lukas) from CincomStore into
>> VisualWorks 7.4 and everything worked out of the box: no need to load
>> extra packages, no need to fix dependencies, etc.
>>
>> Ok, there was a debugger popping up sometime during loading with an
>> unsatisfiable dependency: I just hit proceed and it worked.
>>
>>> TODO: create a correct bundle (don't know how to do it for the
>>> moment), or Smallwiki visualworks version can be considered as
>>> unusuable.
>>
>> I consider it as stable ;-)
>>
>> I changed the blessing level to make people aware of the debugger.
>>
>> Lukas
>>
>> -- 
>> Lukas Renggli
>> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From chris at chrisburkert.de  Sun Feb 19 13:53:17 2006
From: chris at chrisburkert.de (chris@chrisburkert.de)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 13:53:17 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [ANN] SmallWiki-stable release
In-Reply-To: <F2FCD5BC-F809-44FC-BA29-915C8FC2CD5F@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <87bqx5sf0x.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>
	<F2FCD5BC-F809-44FC-BA29-915C8FC2CD5F@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <1072.82.113.113.243.1140353597.squirrel@www.beine-computer.de>

Hi all,

>> you don't need to bother about dependencies. The unstable one - called
>> Smallwiki - is for Squeak 3.7 and 3.8. This unstable one should
>> probably be renamed Smallwiki-unstable (sorry, don't have the
>> login/pass to do it - Lukas ?).
>
> Me neither, I am just listed as author, not owner or maintainer. So I
> am unable to change that. Chris can you do it?

As I don't know the current state of the package I just made both of you
co-maintainers of it.

By the way ... is there a chance or timeline of some stable-release of
Pier? I have some guys (including me :-) which need some great Content
Management.

Chris


From saidani at squeakfr.org  Sun Feb 19 18:17:45 2006
From: saidani at squeakfr.org (Samir Saidani)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 18:17:45 +0100
Subject: [ANN] SmallWiki-stable release
In-Reply-To: <F2FCD5BC-F809-44FC-BA29-915C8FC2CD5F@iam.unibe.ch> (Lukas
	Renggli's message of "Sat, 18 Feb 2006 08:59:30 +0100")
References: <87bqx5sf0x.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>
	<F2FCD5BC-F809-44FC-BA29-915C8FC2CD5F@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <87wtfr1d52.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>

Lukas Renggli <renggli at iam.unibe.ch> writes:

> Hi Samir,
>
>> to ask for permission to contribute to smallwiki. So please consider
>> that this is a great responsability : you should read carefully the
>> "how to contribute" proposal (www.squeaksource.com/smallwiki1). Please
>> post to the smallwiki list for any comments. The current
>> smallwiki-stable release is based on the Chris port version 0.9.23-6
>> whereas the unstable one is based on 0.9.53.
>
> I will try to install it. I am especially interested into those  
> comments. Mind you if I reuse them for Pier?

No problem for me ! 

As you've noticed, there was a lot of changes between the 0.9.23 and
0.9.53 and I'm trying to understand the changes and how to incorporate
gradually those changes into smallwiki-stable... Not easy !

Cheers,
Samir

From saidani at squeakfr.org  Sun Feb 19 18:10:32 2006
From: saidani at squeakfr.org (Samir Saidani)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 18:10:32 +0100
Subject: [ANN] SmallWiki-stable release
In-Reply-To: <1912B4F0-ABF7-4628-B93C-4E30A2F13772@iam.unibe.ch>
	(=?iso-8859-1?Q?st=E9phane?=
	ducasse's message of "Sat, 18 Feb 2006 13:31:13 +0100")
References: <87bqx5sf0x.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>
	<1912B4F0-ABF7-4628-B93C-4E30A2F13772@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <871wxz2s1j.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>

"st?phane ducasse" <ducasse at iam.unibe.ch> writes:

>> How to keep the "one-click" installation both for developers and users
>> ?  Answer: When releasing a new SW version, we should for the moment
>> update the modified package plus its dependent packages - maybe there
>> is a way to automate (TODO) that through MCConfiguration but I don't
>> know how to do that. For instance, a modification of SmallWiki-Kernel
>> implies a dependency update of SmallWiki-Parser + SmallWiki-Stable.
>
>
> Samir
> the pattern is to have one package with no code and just dependent  
> packages.

Hi Stef, 

This is what I did : smallwiki-stable is a package with no code and
depends from smallwiki-parser which itself depends from
smallwiki-kernel. But I don't know why, I miss this point :

> you version the main one and all the  
> dependents
> will be versioned too. 

Anyway, it works now : thanks !

Samir


From ducasse at iam.unibe.ch  Sun Feb 19 18:34:54 2006
From: ducasse at iam.unibe.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?st=E9phane_ducasse?=)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 18:34:54 +0100
Subject: [ANN] SmallWiki-stable release
In-Reply-To: <871wxz2s1j.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>
References: <87bqx5sf0x.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>
	<1912B4F0-ABF7-4628-B93C-4E30A2F13772@iam.unibe.ch>
	<871wxz2s1j.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>
Message-ID: <F491A6BA-0085-4235-8E3F-9CEF6C5D6DF6@iam.unibe.ch>

>
> Hi Stef,
>
> This is what I did : smallwiki-stable is a package with no code and
> depends from smallwiki-parser which itself depends from
> smallwiki-kernel. But I don't know why, I miss this point :

The point is not to have for example smallwiki parser depends on  
smallwiki-kernel.
In VW we ended with situation where we could not load two  
applications together
since one was internally depending on the version 2 of a component  
while the other
was depending on another version. We could not fix that since we  
could not load the
packages. So we stopped having internal dependency and use instead  
lineUp

http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/travis/blogView? 
showComments=true&entry=3265388740

Stef


From n.melin at microkwen.com  Sun Feb 19 18:44:32 2006
From: n.melin at microkwen.com (Nicolas MELIN)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 18:44:32 +0100
Subject: [PR] default css
Message-ID: <5927D9DE-5DA0-4C14-9E99-E5652C2F7952@microkwen.com>

Hi Lukas,
I see you removed Pier's default css files from your website. Is it  
possible to download them and use them locally ?

Thanks
Nicolas

From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Sun Feb 19 23:01:56 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 23:01:56 +0100
Subject: [ANN] SmallWiki-stable release
In-Reply-To: <1072.82.113.113.243.1140353597.squirrel@www.beine-computer.de>
References: <87bqx5sf0x.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>
	<F2FCD5BC-F809-44FC-BA29-915C8FC2CD5F@iam.unibe.ch>
	<1072.82.113.113.243.1140353597.squirrel@www.beine-computer.de>
Message-ID: <6FC9ED15-1714-4D4A-ACDF-54AD8F15AC7E@iam.unibe.ch>

> By the way ... is there a chance or timeline of some stable-release  
> of Pier? I have some guys (including me :-) which need some great  
> Content Management.

It is already on SqueakMap, for quite some time now ;-)

I recently heard an interesting presentation of Gilad Bracha titled  
"Objects as Software Services: Toward a World without Releases".

For me the thing without the releases was nothing new: I never really  
released "SmallWiki 1", and this will be probably the same for Pier  
and Magritte. At some point in time, people just started to use it,  
because it fits their needs. Some people wait a bit longer, because  
they require a particular feature, others are just happy with what  
they get. Some people never update their code after they have what  
they initially wanted, others always want to stay up-to-date at the  
bleeding edge. Some people write extensions, fork the system, modify  
it while merging my changes, etc.

And at the same time I am slowly, but continuously developing it  
further, enhancing the running system, fixing bugs, integrating  
changes of other people, etc.

Btw, I am using Pier for my own web-site now ;-)

Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Sun Feb 19 23:04:30 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 23:04:30 +0100
Subject: [PR] default css
In-Reply-To: <5927D9DE-5DA0-4C14-9E99-E5652C2F7952@microkwen.com>
References: <5927D9DE-5DA0-4C14-9E99-E5652C2F7952@microkwen.com>
Message-ID: <E3E150AA-96F0-4E12-AC71-68D1DA7DD266@iam.unibe.ch>

Hi Nicolas,

> I see you removed Pier's default css files from your website. Is it
> possible to download them and use them locally ?

sorry, that was a mistake. I changed some things on the web-server,  
but they should be back online again.

Attached you find the default-css as a zip-file, so that you don't  
need to download all the files manually.

Cheers,
Lukas

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-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From n.melin at microkwen.com  Mon Feb 20 00:08:16 2006
From: n.melin at microkwen.com (Nicolas MELIN)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 00:08:16 +0100
Subject: Pier problems
Message-ID: <56DD1702-1FA4-4F89-94D0-58C1EE509B8C@microkwen.com>

Hi,
this is a mail I sent on the wrong smallwiki mailing-list a few weeks  
ago.

I finally got the time to install Pier. The main goal is not to have  
a rock stable wiki (I would have used SmallWiki for that), but rather  
to test Pier.

I installed Pier from scratch, to have the latest versions. (I  
followed instructions given on http://smallwiki.unibe.ch/smallwiki/ 
pier/installationofpier/). As I needed the authentication features, I  
installed the Pier-Security too.

The versions I used are:
- Pier-Model-lr.39
- Pier-Tests-lr.22
- Pier-Seaside-lr.36
- Pier-Security-pmm.17

At the moment, I have 3 kernels running. I noted a few problems :

- Pier-Security: I added users, groups without problem. Then I  
disabled the View Command for "Other" users.
The problem is, disabling view doesn't hide contents. ie: "Other"  
users can still view the first page of the wiki (even if the links  
are grayed), the tree contents, and worst, if they type the address  
directly, they can view all the pages of the wiki. (this problem was  
already reported by C?drick B?ler, and I fixed it quick&dirty by  
modifying PRContentsWidget and PRTreeWidget to only display content  
when context isValid)

Another thing, even after fixing the first problem, when I click on  
Login, the context becomes valid, and the tree contents are displayed.


- PRFilePersistency:
	- When PRFilePersistency is instanced, it doesn't actually create  
the log file. So when using the Log or Changes commands before saving  
anything, I get a FileDoesNotExistException.

	- When a page is deleted, when I use Changes or Log Commands, I get  
an UndefinedObject error. If I manually delete the log, the problem  
is solved.

	- Would be interesting to have a way to change the default log file  
name (I added this in my image)


- mutex: I got a strange problem. Suddenly, one of the 3 kernels  
stopped accepting logins. The page just froze when I tried to login.  
I found that something went wrong with a process in this kernel's  
mutex. I tried to play with the blocked process, sending resume and  
terminate messages, but I probably shouldn't have, because the image  
locked, and the VM segfaulted, so I couldn't investigate it more  
deeply ;-)

- Do you have a bug tracker for Pier ?

Nicolas



From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Mon Feb 20 00:28:02 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 00:28:02 +0100
Subject: Pier problems
In-Reply-To: <56DD1702-1FA4-4F89-94D0-58C1EE509B8C@microkwen.com>
References: <56DD1702-1FA4-4F89-94D0-58C1EE509B8C@microkwen.com>
Message-ID: <362D1A4C-D95B-4EF5-BDB4-EAFCC57CAFF0@iam.unibe.ch>

> The problem is, disabling view doesn't hide contents. ie: "Other"
> users can still view the first page of the wiki (even if the links
> are grayed), the tree contents, and worst, if they type the address
> directly, they can view all the pages of the wiki. (this problem was
> already reported by C?drick B?ler, and I fixed it quick&dirty by
> modifying PRContentsWidget and PRTreeWidget to only display content
> when context isValid)

That's a bit of a problem to hide the root page. What should be  
displayed then? How does the user log-in?

I fixed the problem with the adress that could be manually typed in  
just this afternoon (yesterday actually), simply load the latest  
version of Pier-Seaside.

> - PRFilePersistency:
> 	- When PRFilePersistency is instanced, it doesn't actually create
> the log file. So when using the Log or Changes commands before saving
> anything, I get a FileDoesNotExistException.

Yes, it is known that this doesn't work.

> - When a page is deleted, when I use Changes or Log Commands, I get
> an UndefinedObject error. If I manually delete the log, the problem
> is solved.

Yes nasty, I know :-/

> - Would be interesting to have a way to change the default log file
> name (I added this in my image)
>
> - mutex: I got a strange problem. Suddenly, one of the 3 kernels
> stopped accepting logins. The page just froze when I tried to login.
> I found that something went wrong with a process in this kernel's
> mutex. I tried to play with the blocked process, sending resume and
> terminate messages, but I probably shouldn't have, because the image
> locked, and the VM segfaulted, so I couldn't investigate it more
> deeply ;-)
>
> - Do you have a bug tracker for Pier ?

Ok, these are obviously all bugs for Pier. I will have a look at them  
tomorrow. Up to now we used this mailing-list and a wiki page to  
report bugs:

	<http://smallwiki.unibe.ch/smallwiki/pier/pierbugs/>

Maybe later on we want to go to Squeak-Mantis (somebody already  
created a category for Pier), but right now I am a bit afraid of the  
overhead ...

Cheers,






>
> Nicolas
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch




From frank.urbach at schmees.com  Mon Feb 20 08:52:15 2006
From: frank.urbach at schmees.com (Frank Urbach)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 07:52:15 +0000
Subject: Re-2: [PR] default css
Message-ID: <DIIE.00000CBD0000C047@192.168.0.199>

Hi,

I've tryed changing the "style" in "PRPierFrame" under windows with '@import "file:/C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\urbach\Desktop\Smalltalk\Squeak\Pier2\style.css";' for my testbed. If I do this I've lost the right behavior of the pier look-like. I'm reading the FAQ on smallwiki-website but can't see anything helps further. Can anybody take me to the right place?

Cheers,
 Frank

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PR] default css (19-Feb-2006 23:04)
From:    Lukas Renggli <renggli at iam.unibe.ch>
To:      frank.urbach at schmees.com

> Hi Nicolas,
> 
> > I see you removed Pier's default css files from your website. Is it
> > possible to download them and use them locally ?
> 
> sorry, that was a mistake. I changed some things on the web-server,  
> but they should be back online again.
> 
> Attached you find the default-css as a zip-file, so that you don't  
> need to download all the files manually.
> 
> Cheers,
> Lukas
> 
> 



From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Mon Feb 20 09:18:15 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 09:18:15 +0100
Subject: Re-2: [PR] default css
In-Reply-To: <DIIE.00000CBD0000C047@192.168.0.199>
References: <DIIE.00000CBD0000C047@192.168.0.199>
Message-ID: <2EEE7687-F396-4B3F-BB2D-918218F55862@iam.unibe.ch>

> I've tryed changing the "style" in "PRPierFrame" under windows with  
> '@import "file:/C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\urbach\Desktop 
> \Smalltalk\Squeak\Pier2\style.css";' for my testbed. If I do this  
> I've lost the right behavior of the pier look-like. I'm reading the  
> FAQ on smallwiki-website but can't see anything helps further. Can  
> anybody take me to the right place?

Is it still a problem for you? Due to a change in my web-server  
configuration the files were not reachable yesterday during a few hours.

Note: The latest version of Pier in the Monticello-Repository does  
not use the style-method in PRPierFrame anymore, but it uses the  
Seaside library PRPierLibrary. So if you update you have to add this  
library manually to your Pier application to get any styles.

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From frank.urbach at schmees.com  Mon Feb 20 09:40:43 2006
From: frank.urbach at schmees.com (Frank Urbach)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 08:40:43 +0000
Subject: Re-4: [PR] default css
Message-ID: <DIIE.00000C4B0000C066@192.168.0.199>

Hi Lukas!

The changes of your webserver isn't a problem for me. But I didn't have every time a connection to the web. So I want for my developments the posibility change the css an see what happens. I've tried out your recommandation but with the same result. Somthing ist wrong in writing the path.

Cheers,
Frank
 

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Re-2: [PR] default css (20-Feb-2006 9:18)
From:    Lukas Renggli <renggli at iam.unibe.ch>
To:      frank.urbach at schmees.com

> > I've tryed changing the "style" in "PRPierFrame" under windows with  
> > '@import "file:/C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\urbach\Desktop 
> > \Smalltalk\Squeak\Pier2\style.css";' for my testbed. If I do this  
> > I've lost the right behavior of the pier look-like. I'm reading the  
> > FAQ on smallwiki-website but can't see anything helps further. Can  
> > anybody take me to the right place?
> 
> Is it still a problem for you? Due to a change in my web-server  
> configuration the files were not reachable yesterday during a few hours.
> 
> Note: The latest version of Pier in the Monticello-Repository does  
> not use the style-method in PRPierFrame anymore, but it uses the  
> Seaside library PRPierLibrary. So if you update you have to add this  
> library manually to your Pier application to get any styles.
> 
> Cheers,
> Lukas
> 
> -- 
> Lukas Renggli
> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki



From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Mon Feb 20 11:40:36 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:40:36 +0100
Subject: Re-4: [PR] default css
In-Reply-To: <DIIE.00000C4B0000C066@192.168.0.199>
References: <DIIE.00000C4B0000C066@192.168.0.199>
Message-ID: <7EF7B80A-B3FF-46C9-B974-FAE4089537FA@iam.unibe.ch>

>>> '@import "file:/C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\urbach\Desktop
>>> \Smalltalk\Squeak\Pier2\style.css";' for my testbed. If I do this
>
> recommandation but with the same result. Somthing ist wrong in  
> writing the path.

Mhh, just an idea ...

... the file URL scheme looks like "file://" on unix, I don't know if  
that's the same on windows. So if the path is /foo/bar, the full URL  
looks like "file:///foo/bar".

Applied to Windows I would try "file://C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen 
\urbach\Desktop", maybe you even need to encode the spaces with "+"  
or "%20". What do you get if you paste the URL into your web-browser?

Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From frank.urbach at schmees.com  Mon Feb 20 15:59:38 2006
From: frank.urbach at schmees.com (Frank Urbach)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 14:59:38 +0000
Subject: Re-6: [PR] default css
Message-ID: <DIIE.0000017A0000C151@192.168.0.199>

Hi Lukas!

I've tryed the "@import" in a pure html-site and it works for import "file:///C:/ ...". But if I try this in the syle-accessor of PRPierLibrary it doesn't work. I will try to get some answers from browsing the code. So far..

Cheers,

Frank

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Re-4: [PR] default css (20-Feb-2006 11:40)
From:    Lukas Renggli <renggli at iam.unibe.ch>
To:      frank.urbach at schmees.com

> >>> '@import "file:/C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\urbach\Desktop
> >>> \Smalltalk\Squeak\Pier2\style.css";' for my testbed. If I do this
> >
> > recommandation but with the same result. Somthing ist wrong in  
> > writing the path.
> 
> Mhh, just an idea ...
> 
> ... the file URL scheme looks like "file://" on unix, I don't know if  
> that's the same on windows. So if the path is /foo/bar, the full URL  
> looks like "file:///foo/bar".
> 
> Applied to Windows I would try "file://C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen 
> \urbach\Desktop", maybe you even need to encode the spaces with "+"  
> or "%20". What do you get if you paste the URL into your web-browser?
> 
> Lukas
> 
> -- 
> Lukas Renggli
> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki



From saidani at squeakfr.org  Mon Feb 20 17:44:16 2006
From: saidani at squeakfr.org (Samir Saidani)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 17:44:16 +0100
Subject: [ANN] SmallWiki-stable release
In-Reply-To: <F491A6BA-0085-4235-8E3F-9CEF6C5D6DF6@iam.unibe.ch>
	(=?iso-8859-1?Q?st=E9phane?=
	ducasse's message of "Sun, 19 Feb 2006 18:34:54 +0100")
References: <87bqx5sf0x.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>
	<1912B4F0-ABF7-4628-B93C-4E30A2F13772@iam.unibe.ch>
	<871wxz2s1j.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>
	<F491A6BA-0085-4235-8E3F-9CEF6C5D6DF6@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <8764nax9nj.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>

"st?phane ducasse" <ducasse at iam.unibe.ch> writes:

>>
>> Hi Stef,
>>
>> This is what I did : smallwiki-stable is a package with no code and
>> depends from smallwiki-parser which itself depends from
>> smallwiki-kernel. But I don't know why, I miss this point :
>
> The point is not to have for example smallwiki parser depends on  
> smallwiki-kernel.

I must admit that I don't understand at all : so you say that A does
not depend on B anymore, but I don't understand how do you tackle the
dependencies issues with current tools available for squeak
(Monticello I mean ??). And after reading the link you gave me, Avi
seems to say that he follows the same approach than the one reported
on the blog... I would like to understand the problem.

I've just posted on squeak-dev about that, maybe it could interesting
for the list to dialogue around that...

Samir


From ducasse at iam.unibe.ch  Mon Feb 20 20:08:56 2006
From: ducasse at iam.unibe.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?st=E9phane_ducasse?=)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 20:08:56 +0100
Subject: [ANN] SmallWiki-stable release
In-Reply-To: <8764nax9nj.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>
References: <87bqx5sf0x.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>
	<1912B4F0-ABF7-4628-B93C-4E30A2F13772@iam.unibe.ch>
	<871wxz2s1j.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>
	<F491A6BA-0085-4235-8E3F-9CEF6C5D6DF6@iam.unibe.ch>
	<8764nax9nj.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>
Message-ID: <3F90E235-F552-4730-A812-3B3A844CEF58@iam.unibe.ch>

In visualWorks
	if A.1 depends on B.23
	
	and
	Z.2 depends on B.24

you cannot load A and Z since B.23 and B.24 cannot load together.

So what you do is

	W
		A.1
		B.23

	K
		Z.2
		B.24

If you want to load
	A.1 and Z.2
	you can
	because you load first B.23 or B.24
	because you analyzed

But you did not had to change A.1 or Z.2 for that.
You only created a new lineUp
	
	R
		A.1
		B.23
		Z.2

Since other components may want to still load W or A.1 with another B  
version

I let you imagine how this can be the mess with packages depending on  
packages depending on package.....
Stef


On 20 f?vr. 06, at 17:44, Samir Saidani wrote:

> "st?phane ducasse" <ducasse at iam.unibe.ch> writes:
>
>>>
>>> Hi Stef,
>>>
>>> This is what I did : smallwiki-stable is a package with no code and
>>> depends from smallwiki-parser which itself depends from
>>> smallwiki-kernel. But I don't know why, I miss this point :
>>
>> The point is not to have for example smallwiki parser depends on
>> smallwiki-kernel.
>
> I must admit that I don't understand at all : so you say that A does
> not depend on B anymore, but I don't understand how do you tackle the
> dependencies issues with current tools available for squeak
> (Monticello I mean ??). And after reading the link you gave me, Avi
> seems to say that he follows the same approach than the one reported
> on the blog...

Me too

> I would like to understand the problem.
>
> I've just posted on squeak-dev about that, maybe it could interesting
> for the list to dialogue around that...
>
> Samir
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>



From brad at sonaural.com  Mon Feb 20 20:28:14 2006
From: brad at sonaural.com (Brad Fuller)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:28:14 -0800
Subject: Fast Production Pier
Message-ID: <43FA184E.3020809@sonaural.com>

What is the fastest way to get Pier up and running for production?
(how's that for an open-ended question!)

I want just a website, not a CMS
What I have so far:
 - Running on Linux, FC4
- 3.7-7
- The default Seaside/Pier running at 9090.
- installed Pier Unix Security from SqueakMap

Running at port:80 is a requirement but just a minimal website: mostly
text with some graphics (like a header) and with links is all I need
right now.


From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Mon Feb 20 23:34:08 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:34:08 +0100
Subject: Fast Production Pier
In-Reply-To: <43FA184E.3020809@sonaural.com>
References: <43FA184E.3020809@sonaural.com>
Message-ID: <C6EB5E23-6E6A-482F-8A11-D2A9DAF44062@iam.unibe.ch>

> What is the fastest way to get Pier up and running for production?
> (how's that for an open-ended question!)

Yes, this is definitely an open-ended question.

Three possible answers from my side:

1. Of course you can just run your Squeak image on port 80, but then  
you probably need to run it as root to be able to listen on port 80:

	nohup squeak -vm-display-null pier.image &

That is probably the easiest solution to run a seaside application on  
your own linux box, but certainly not the best one.

2. The setup on my own gentoo linux looks slightly more complicated.  
First of all I use daemon-tools <http://cr.yp.to/daemontools.html> to  
make sure the image runs all the time. The startup-script looks like:

	#!/bin/sh
	exec \
		nice \
		setuidgid apache \
		squeak -vm-sound-null -vm-display-null pier.image

Inside the image I have Seaside listening on port 9002, as well as a  
vnc-server to manage, update and fix the running code. Then I have  
Apache 2 running that is responsible to do the virtual-hosting and  
the static file serving. The configuration looks like:

	<VirtualHost www.lukas-renggli.ch:80>

		DocumentRoot /home/apache/www.lukas-renggli.ch
		<Directory /home/apache/www.lukas-renggli.ch>
			Order deny,allow
			Allow from all
		</Directory>
  		
		ProxyPreserveHost On

		RewriteEngine On
		RewriteCond /home/apache/www.lukas-renggli.ch/%{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-f
		RewriteRule ^/(.*)$ http://localhost:9002/seaside/pier/$1 [P,L]

	</VirtualHost>

The first half of this file are standard-things. Then  
"ProxyPreserveHost On" enables Seaside to get absolute paths  
correctly. The rewrite rule maps the static file-system into the same  
URL space as the one of the Squeak image. Basically it tells apache  
to serve the static file if it is available, else it will proxy the  
request to Seaside.

3. The third option is nothing I can talk about right now, but it  
will be certainly announced during this or the next week ;-)

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

From brad at sonaural.com  Mon Feb 20 23:53:53 2006
From: brad at sonaural.com (Brad Fuller)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 14:53:53 -0800
Subject: Fast Production Pier
In-Reply-To: <C6EB5E23-6E6A-482F-8A11-D2A9DAF44062@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <43FA184E.3020809@sonaural.com>
	<C6EB5E23-6E6A-482F-8A11-D2A9DAF44062@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <43FA4881.3010601@sonaural.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/pipermail/smallwiki/attachments/20060220/866500ab/attachment.html

From cputney at wiresong.ca  Tue Feb 21 02:16:54 2006
From: cputney at wiresong.ca (Colin Putney)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 20:16:54 -0500
Subject: Smallwiki to Pier migration?
Message-ID: <F2192B27-772B-420B-B31A-323371BF2B02@wiresong.ca>

Hi folks,

For a couple of years now, I've been using SmallWiki to power the  
Monticello/OmniBrowser web site. Now that Pier seems to be stable,  
I'd like to upgrade. Does anybody have advice for how to move the  
wiki contents from SmallWiki to Pier?

Thanks,

Colin

From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Tue Feb 21 06:59:27 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 06:59:27 +0100
Subject: Smallwiki to Pier migration?
In-Reply-To: <F2192B27-772B-420B-B31A-323371BF2B02@wiresong.ca>
References: <F2192B27-772B-420B-B31A-323371BF2B02@wiresong.ca>
Message-ID: <4EEAB681-4A14-43C1-A038-34B7FA7D513C@iam.unibe.ch>

Hi Colin,

> For a couple of years now, I've been using SmallWiki to power the
> Monticello/OmniBrowser web site. Now that Pier seems to be stable,
> I'd like to upgrade. Does anybody have advice for how to move the
> wiki contents from SmallWiki to Pier?

I've been already waiting for a question like this ;-)

There are no ready made solutions for that yet, but it will be quite  
simple as soon as somebody did the first transformation.

The strategy I would choose:

1. Have SmallWiki 1, the Pier-Model and your data in one image.

2. Write a SmallWiki 1 visitor that walks over the old data producing  
the new model. This should can be fairly simple, basically tree  
methods that map:

	SWPage/SWFolder -> PRPage
	SWResource -> PRFile

While visiting the pages you parse the wiki-string of the old content  
with the new parser to get the new document representation.

3. Users, Groups, Persistency have then to be converted manually.

4. Publish the code of the transformation visitor to <http://mc.lukas- 
renggli.ch/pieraddons/> ;-)

Tell me if there are any problems.

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From cbeler at enit.fr  Tue Feb 21 14:02:00 2006
From: cbeler at enit.fr (=?UTF-8?B?Q8OpZHJpY2sgQsOpbGVy?=)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 14:02:00 +0100
Subject: Encoding Rendering problem
In-Reply-To: <59F3A130-B343-41ED-ADCC-90D247354F81@gmail.com>
References: <65F3BA0B-DE59-451B-8B86-961ED797F618@embian.com>
	<59F3A130-B343-41ED-ADCC-90D247354F81@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43FB0F48.5030109@enit.fr>

Hi

>
> If you aren't already, try using "WAEncodedKom startOn: 9090" instead  
> of "WAKom startOn: 9090".  This will do the proper conversions to and  
> from UTF-8 from WideString.

I also have some problem with french characters... (? ? ? ...) using 
Magritte

- with WAKom

I have encoding problems for strings written in the squeak browser (ex: 
a label definition for a description like 'Nationalit?')
Inputs done from forms are ok.

- with WAKomEncoded, it's the opposite situation. Description labels are 
correctly rendered whereas forms inputs are corrupted...

Do you know how to solve this problem ? (I probably missed something to 
configure)

Thanks

C?drick

From roel.wuyts at ulb.ac.be  Tue Feb 21 14:41:07 2006
From: roel.wuyts at ulb.ac.be (Roel Wuyts)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 14:41:07 +0100
Subject: Help with local links
Message-ID: <6446FC35-AFDD-47E7-94E9-7600BEBCFC83@ulb.ac.be>

Hello,

I want to make a Smallwiki pages where I want to use links to other  
elements (anchors) on the same page. I assumed the following would work:

-<a href="#target">Point to item on same page</a>
<hr>
<a name="target">The target</a>.

But it does not, since the basepath does not point to the right  
location, or something. To see my problem in real life, have a look  
at the following page:  http://restructuring.ulb.ac.be/achievements/ 
designrecoverytoolslist/

Any ideas on how to go about this ?


Kind Regards,

Roel Wuyts

From Roel.Wuyts at ulb.ac.be  Tue Feb 21 14:53:41 2006
From: Roel.Wuyts at ulb.ac.be (Roel Wuyts)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 14:53:41 +0100
Subject: Fwd: Help with local links
References: <6446FC35-AFDD-47E7-94E9-7600BEBCFC83@ulb.ac.be>
Message-ID: <44BC14AB-565D-432E-8D9D-DAC1499C135D@ulb.ac.be>

Hello,

I want to make a Smallwiki pages where I want to use links to other  
elements (anchors) on the same page. I assumed the following would work:

-<a href="#target">Point to item on same page</a>
<hr>
<a name="target">The target</a>.

But it does not, since the basepath does not point to the right  
location, or something. To see my problem in real life, have a look  
at the following page:  http://restructuring.ulb.ac.be/achievements/ 
designrecoverytoolslist/

Any ideas on how to go about this ?


Kind Regards,

Roel Wuyts


From thf at impara.de  Tue Feb 21 16:34:44 2006
From: thf at impara.de (Thomas Froeb)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 16:34:44 +0100
Subject: Fwd: Help with local links
In-Reply-To: <44BC14AB-565D-432E-8D9D-DAC1499C135D@ulb.ac.be>
References: <6446FC35-AFDD-47E7-94E9-7600BEBCFC83@ulb.ac.be>
	<44BC14AB-565D-432E-8D9D-DAC1499C135D@ulb.ac.be>
Message-ID: <43FB3314.70903@impara.de>

Roel Wuyts schrieb:
> Hello,
>
> I want to make a Smallwiki pages where I want to use links to other  
> elements (anchors) on the same page. I assumed the following would work:
>
> -<a href="#target">Point to item on same page</a>
> <hr>
> <a name="target">The target</a>.
>
> But it does not, since the basepath does not point to the right  
> location, or something. To see my problem in real life, have a look  
> at the following page:  http://restructuring.ulb.ac.be/achievements/ 
> designrecoverytoolslist/
>
> Any ideas on how to go about this ?
>
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Roel Wuyts
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>   
Hi Roel,

everything works fine the way you did it in Firefox (1.5) but not in the 
Internet Explorer.
This seems to be a bug in the newest SmallWiki releases on Squeakmap 
which occurs in the Internet Explorer. If you use older versions like 
the one from www.seaside.st you don't have this problem.

Regards,
Thomas

From cbeler at enit.fr  Wed Feb 22 15:53:41 2006
From: cbeler at enit.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?C=E9drick_B=E9ler?=)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:53:41 +0100
Subject: MAAccessor
Message-ID: <43FC7AF5.1050300@enit.fr>

Hi ...

I don't really see how the different MAaccesor work... as I'm always 
using MASelector...

For instance, what could be the use of MADictionnaryAccesor ?

MAVariableAccesor ? (used in MADescription class)

MAContainerAccessor ?

...

Are they always linked to real instance variables (created) ?



Thanks

C?drick
I

From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Wed Feb 22 20:02:14 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 20:02:14 +0100
Subject: [ANN] Free Seaside-Hosting online
Message-ID: <7CD8F6E7-7700-4B66-8BCD-38D9EBC06E5E@iam.unibe.ch>

Hi,

just for those that haven't noticed yet: there is now a free Seaside  
hosting service available. Of course this is a good place to run your  
own Pier instance ;-)

Have fun,
Lukas

> From: Adrian Lienhard <adi at netstyle.ch>
> Date: 22 f?vrier 2006 09:05:27 HNEC
> To: "The Squeak Enterprise Aubergines Server - general discussion."  
> <seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org>, The general-purpose Squeak  
> developers list <squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
> Subject: [ANN] Free Seaside-Hosting online
> Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak- 
> dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
>
> Hi all,
>
> netstyle.ch and ESUG are pleased to finally announce the new  
> Seaside hosting service located at
> 	
> 	<http://www.seasidehosting.st/>
>
> Seaside-Hosting is a free hosting service for non-commercial  
> Seaside applications. This service provides a simple to use web  
> interface with FTP access to set up and run your Seaside  
> applications. It allows you to put your own application online  
> within minutes. The service is a Seaside application and is itself  
> running on Seaside-Hosting too.
>
> Seaside-Hosting currently offers 128 MB of file-space for saving  
> the Squeak web-application image and static files, e.g., pictures  
> or style sheets which you want to use as part of your application.
>
> For general discussion we propose to use the Seaside mailing list.  
> For specific questions or problems please contact us directly at  
> <seasidehosting at netstyle.ch>.
>
> Enjoy,
> Adrian
> ___________________
> Adrian Lienhard
> netstyle.ch GmbH, Terrassenweg 18, CH-3012 Bern
> T +41 31 356 42 56, F +41 31 356 42 57
> http://www.netstyle.ch  mailto:info at netstyle.ch

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch


From damien.cassou at laposte.net  Wed Feb 22 20:28:51 2006
From: damien.cassou at laposte.net (Damien Cassou)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 20:28:51 +0100
Subject: MAAccessor
In-Reply-To: <43FC7AF5.1050300@enit.fr>
References: <43FC7AF5.1050300@enit.fr>
Message-ID: <43FCBB73.5060105@laposte.net>

C?drick B?ler a ?crit :
> Hi ...
> 
> I don't really see how the different MAaccesor work... as I'm always 
> using MASelector...

Do you use last Magritte version ? There is comments in the MAAccessor 
classes now.

> For instance, what could be the use of MADictionnaryAccesor ?

This one expects a dictionary as the model and a key to create the 
accessor. #read: is equivalent to #at: on dictionaries while #write:to: 
is equivalent to #at:put:.

> MAVariableAccesor ? (used in MADescription class)

MAVariableAccessor is used only as a convenience constructor in 
MADescription in fact. It access directly a variable of the model passed 
to #write:to: or #read. You'd better use MASelectorAccessor or 
MAAutoSelectorAccessor.

> MAContainerAccessor ?

This one is not supposed to write. And when used for reading, it answers 
the model given as the argument.

> Are they always linked to real instance variables (created) ?

Not at all. Only MAVariableAccessor use instance variables directly. 
MASelectorAccessor does not require a variable, it can store in a 
database for example or something else that fit your needs.

-- 
Damien Cassou

CSS3 :  "On passe au  HSL, plus intuitif  et moins orient? CRT  que le
RGB. Il y a du HSLA". Et en plus, ?a veut dire quelque chose (au moins
pour l'auteur) !

From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Wed Feb 22 21:01:12 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:01:12 +0100
Subject: MAAccessor
In-Reply-To: <43FC7AF5.1050300@enit.fr>
References: <43FC7AF5.1050300@enit.fr>
Message-ID: <B28A60C3-FEBE-4828-86AE-F99751D3890E@iam.unibe.ch>

> I don't really see how the different MAaccesor work... as I'm always
> using MASelector...

Don't worry, this is fine. It is probably the accessor to be used in  
95% of the cases.

> For instance, what could be the use of MADictionnaryAccesor ?

If you have a dictionaries with your values ... e.g. a property  
dictionary with different key and value pairs.

> MAVariableAccesor ? (used in MADescription class)

I've never used it, but it is cool to have ;-)

> MAContainerAccessor ?

It is used internally by Magritte. It is the same as:

	MASelectorAccessor read: #yourself
	(this is also read-only)

> Are they always linked to real instance variables (created) ?

No, as Damien said they can be dynamically calculated, fetched from a  
database, dispatched to other objects, etc.

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Wed Feb 22 21:01:14 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:01:14 +0100
Subject: Help with local links
In-Reply-To: <43FB3314.70903@impara.de>
References: <6446FC35-AFDD-47E7-94E9-7600BEBCFC83@ulb.ac.be>
	<44BC14AB-565D-432E-8D9D-DAC1499C135D@ulb.ac.be>
	<43FB3314.70903@impara.de>
Message-ID: <AADCDDAF-E62D-455D-B13C-35A805B99C3F@iam.unibe.ch>

Hi Roel,

the thing with the base-path in the <head> is common trouble-causer,  
because different browser interpret it differently. Try to remove the  
generation of the base-path tag in SmallWiki by commenting out the  
line and see if this helps (and doesn't cause other troubles):

TemplateBodyContents>>renderheadWith: anAction on: html
	"html base: anAction server basePath."
	html style: anAction structure stylesheet.

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Wed Feb 22 21:01:16 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:01:16 +0100
Subject: Encoding Rendering problem
In-Reply-To: <43FB0F48.5030109@enit.fr>
References: <65F3BA0B-DE59-451B-8B86-961ED797F618@embian.com>
	<59F3A130-B343-41ED-ADCC-90D247354F81@gmail.com>
	<43FB0F48.5030109@enit.fr>
Message-ID: <F4589B6A-61CD-44E3-B628-C77DC609CC02@iam.unibe.ch>

>> If you aren't already, try using "WAEncodedKom startOn: 9090" instead
>> of "WAKom startOn: 9090".  This will do the proper conversions to and
>> from UTF-8 from WideString.
>
> I also have some problem with french characters... (? ? ? ...) using
> Magritte

I usually have problems with german umlauts (?, ?, ?, ...) ;-)

> Do you know how to solve this problem ? (I probably missed  
> something to configure)

Does the resulting HTML has a propre encoding?

	<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>

Does your web-browser properly detect and interpret this tag?

Do you have all your string-constants within your image using this  
encoding? Strings coming from the web and going back into the web,  
should be fine and no conversion is needed.

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch




From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Wed Feb 22 21:01:19 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:01:19 +0100
Subject: Fast Production Pier
In-Reply-To: <43FA4881.3010601@sonaural.com>
References: <43FA184E.3020809@sonaural.com>
	<C6EB5E23-6E6A-482F-8A11-D2A9DAF44062@iam.unibe.ch>
	<43FA4881.3010601@sonaural.com>
Message-ID: <0525DC8E-7AA0-48B8-9AFB-54F39CC84723@iam.unibe.ch>

> What I would like to find (and maybe it's out there, but I can't  
> find it) is how to create a totally new "website". And, make it  
> only readable by the general public (e.g when starting Pier, it  
> just starts up and exposes everything.) Note that I'm not very  
> familiar with web technology.

If you load 'Pier-Security' from Squeak map you can easily make your  
web-site read only for public. With the 'Unix Permission' package you  
need to remove all the permission except the one for the view from  
the root directory of 'others' and assign the admin as 'owner' and  
'group'.

> The information to create a totally new website seems to be lacking  
> in the documentation - or I just haven't found it or completely by- 
> passed it. Or I'm just a confused (which is totally possible)

Yes, there is a lack of documentation :-/

> What is a typical way of creating a website from existing seaside  
> or pier classes? What the heck do I subclass? Or do I subclass?
> There are a lot of Pier classes, and I'm a bit confused. Maybe the  
> best thing for me to do is create a Seaside app and not subclass Pier?

What I did for my website was just to change the style sheet, to edit  
the page 'environment' and to write some content. For most users  
there is probably no need to write any code.

I will try and see if we can come up with something ready for Seaside- 
Hosting, so that people can only press a button and then they get a  
ready made and nicely hosted Pier system running. For now this is  
just an idea, but if I find some time I will try to prepare  
something ...

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



From damien.cassou at laposte.net  Wed Feb 22 21:33:37 2006
From: damien.cassou at laposte.net (Damien Cassou)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:33:37 +0100
Subject: [PR] #doInitialize
Message-ID: <43FCCAA1.8090602@laposte.net>

In PRCommand, there is no more #doInitialize method. I've read the 
Monticello comment, but don't understand why you remove it.

-- 
Damien Cassou

From brad at sonaural.com  Wed Feb 22 21:34:36 2006
From: brad at sonaural.com (Brad Fuller)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 12:34:36 -0800
Subject: Fast Production Pier
In-Reply-To: <0525DC8E-7AA0-48B8-9AFB-54F39CC84723@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <43FA184E.3020809@sonaural.com>	<C6EB5E23-6E6A-482F-8A11-D2A9DAF44062@iam.unibe.ch>	<43FA4881.3010601@sonaural.com>
	<0525DC8E-7AA0-48B8-9AFB-54F39CC84723@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <43FCCADC.8060601@sonaural.com>

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From saidani at squeakfr.org  Tue Feb 21 21:08:00 2006
From: saidani at squeakfr.org (Samir Saidani)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 21:08:00 +0100
Subject: Fwd: Help with local links
In-Reply-To: <43FB3314.70903@impara.de> (Thomas Froeb's message of "Tue, 21
	Feb 2006 16:34:44 +0100")
References: <6446FC35-AFDD-47E7-94E9-7600BEBCFC83@ulb.ac.be>
	<44BC14AB-565D-432E-8D9D-DAC1499C135D@ulb.ac.be>
	<43FB3314.70903@impara.de>
Message-ID: <877j7obhlr.fsf@info.unicaen.fr>


I had this problem too, and as far as I remember, I corrected it by
providing a correct basePath to the smallwiki server : instead of
having '/' as a basePath, change it to
'http://restructuring.ulb.ac.be/' and it should work both for firefox
and ie.

Samir

Thomas Froeb <thf at impara.de> writes:

> Roel Wuyts schrieb:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I want to make a Smallwiki pages where I want to use links to other  
>> elements (anchors) on the same page. I assumed the following would work:
>>
>> -<a href="#target">Point to item on same page</a>
>> <hr>
>> <a name="target">The target</a>.
>>
>> But it does not, since the basepath does not point to the right  
>> location, or something. To see my problem in real life, have a look  
>> at the following page:  http://restructuring.ulb.ac.be/achievements/ 
>> designrecoverytoolslist/
>>
>> Any ideas on how to go about this ?
>>
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>>
>> Roel Wuyts
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>>   
> Hi Roel,
>
> everything works fine the way you did it in Firefox (1.5) but not in the 
> Internet Explorer.
> This seems to be a bug in the newest SmallWiki releases on Squeakmap 
> which occurs in the Internet Explorer. If you use older versions like 
> the one from www.seaside.st you don't have this problem.
>
> Regards,
> Thomas
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki

From frank.urbach at schmees.com  Wed Feb 22 22:21:22 2006
From: frank.urbach at schmees.com (Frank Urbach)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:21:22 +0000 GMT
Subject: Fast Production Pier
Message-ID: <452395672-1140643470-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-31706-@engine11-cell01.bwc.produk.on.blackberry>

Hi Lukas!
What about some docu of css using in pier. I've browsed some code of pier searching for binding css from local file-system. There was nothing that can change the width of edit-field of some contents. So I was playing around with the css itself and saw changing the css works for my wishes. 
I think for newbies of pier like me the docu of css used in pier is the best thing getting the own look and feel with some usefull content. 

Cheers, 
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:01:19 
To:"SmallWiki at schmees.com, Magritte at schmees.com, smallwiki at iam.unibe.ch"@mx04.bwc.eu.BlackBerry.COM
Subject: Re: Fast Production Pier

> What I would like to find (and maybe it's out there, but I can't
> find it) is how to create a totally new "website". And, make it
> only readable by the general public (e.g when starting Pier, it
> just starts up and exposes everything.) Note that I'm not very 
> familiar with web technology.

If you load 'Pier-Security' from Squeak map you can easily make your
web-site read only for public. With the 'Unix Permission' package you
need to remove all the permission except the one for the view from
the root directory of 'others' and assign the admin as 'owner' and
'group'.

> The information to create a totally new website seems to be lacking
> in the documentation - or I just haven't found it or completely by-
> passed it. Or I'm just a confused (which is totally possible)

Yes, there is a lack of documentation :-/

> What is a typical way of creating a website from existing seaside
> or pier classes? What the heck do I subclass? Or do I subclass?
> There are a lot of Pier classes, and I'm a bit confused. Maybe the
> best thing for me to do is create a Seaside app and not subclass Pier?

What I did for my website was just to change the style sheet, to edit
the page 'environment' and to write some content. For most users 
there is probably no need to write any code.

I will try and see if we can come up with something ready for Seaside-
Hosting, so that people can only press a button and then they get a
ready made and nicely hosted Pier system running. For now this is
just an idea, but if I find some time I will try to prepare
something ...

Cheers,
Lukas

--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch



_______________________________________________
SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki





From cbeler at enit.fr  Thu Feb 23 12:41:30 2006
From: cbeler at enit.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?C=E9drick_B=E9ler?=)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 12:41:30 +0100
Subject: Encoding Rendering problem
In-Reply-To: <F4589B6A-61CD-44E3-B628-C77DC609CC02@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <65F3BA0B-DE59-451B-8B86-961ED797F618@embian.com>	<59F3A130-B343-41ED-ADCC-90D247354F81@gmail.com>	<43FB0F48.5030109@enit.fr>
	<F4589B6A-61CD-44E3-B628-C77DC609CC02@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <43FD9F6A.7040202@enit.fr>

Hi :)

>
>Does the resulting HTML has a propre encoding?
>
>	<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
>  
>
euh... I tried by creating a html file and open it... and I see no 
probs... Do you meant inserting it in the generated xhtml ?

>Does your web-browser properly detect and interpret this tag?
>  
>
seems ok as the encoding is automatically set to utf-8 (if I change and 
refresh, it goes back to utf-8).

>Do you have all your string-constants within your image using this  
>encoding? Strings coming from the web and going back into the web,  
>should be fine and no conversion is needed.
>  
>

- with WAKom
My browser has utf-8 and then display not correctly say 'd?finition' (a 
MADescription label) but when I change to ISO-8859-15, it's ok...  and 
then, entries are not good.
ex: (utf-8) d?finition: une d?finition       ( ISO-8859-15) d?finition: 
une d?@finition

Also, when I enter through web-forms generated by magritte, values 
stored in my objects are corrupted when I inspect them in squeak...But 
if i change (temporarly) the encoding from utf-8 to ISO-8859-15 before 
feeding the form (and hitting enter), then the data in squeak are 
correct... (and correctly displayed with WAKomEncoded or by switching to 
ISO-8859-15)...  

so I don't really know how to solve that...  using WAKomEncoded doesn't 
really help (combined to Magritte) I just don't know - Maybe the problem 
is coming from the encoding in squeak... which I believe is set to 
ISO-8859-15 ??  If true, is it possible to change it ? is there an 
encoding option in squeak (didn't find it)?


Thanks

C?drick

ps: with store (sushi shop), whereas I use WAKom or WAKomEncoded, I have 
no corrupted character in what's displayed in the browser. Nevertheless, 
I need to use WAKomEncoded to have the correct encoding  inside squeak 
(when I inspect objet in squeak).

From cbeler at enit.fr  Thu Feb 23 20:51:15 2006
From: cbeler at enit.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?C=E9drick_B=E9ler?=)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 20:51:15 +0100
Subject: MAAccessor
In-Reply-To: <B28A60C3-FEBE-4828-86AE-F99751D3890E@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <43FC7AF5.1050300@enit.fr>
	<B28A60C3-FEBE-4828-86AE-F99751D3890E@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <43FE1233.5050106@enit.fr>

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From renggli at iam.unibe.ch  Sun Feb 26 13:42:56 2006
From: renggli at iam.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 13:42:56 +0100
Subject: [PR] #doInitialize
In-Reply-To: <43FCCAA1.8090602@laposte.net>
References: <43FCCAA1.8090602@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <346D576F-C0C9-4725-96E0-E983425A36FF@iam.unibe.ch>

Hi Damien,

sorry for the slow answer ...

> In PRCommand, there is no more #doInitialize method. I've read the  
> Monticello comment, but don't understand why you remove it.

there are several reasons, but mainly this is a speed optimization:  
commands are often instantiated to check permissions and query  
availability, without actually requiring them fully initialized.

Using lazy-initialization ensures that we don't have to fully  
initialize them if not required. Moreover it is easier to load  
objects from different (older) sources and the initialization always  
happens in the right (natural) order. This is especially useful if  
the class evolves or we have class-extensions within the command.

Cheers,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch