From hannes.hirzel.squeaklist at bluewin.ch  Tue Mar  4 18:36:42 2003
From: hannes.hirzel.squeaklist at bluewin.ch (Hannes Hirzel)
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 18:36:42 +0100
Subject: (fwd) Re: [Q] CMS/Swiki development
Message-ID: <3E383FE100403165@mail1.bluewin.ch>



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From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Tue Mar  4 21:25:32 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 21:25:32 +0100
Subject: [Q] CMS/Swiki development
Message-ID: <72FA3F59-4E7F-11D7-B92F-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



From: Lukas Renggli <renggli at hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general
Subject: Re: [Q] CMS/Swiki development
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 19:46:37 +0000 (UTC)

Hi Chris,

 > I plan to develop a kind of Swiki that is more what I want (nothing
 > against swiki, but it's not really the thing I want :-) I think the
 > best  is with commanche.

I am implementing (with the Software Composition Group at Bern) a new
Smalltalk Wiki implementation right now. There should be a first public
version within a few weeks.

If you want to have a look at some documentation browse to:

	http://scgwiki.iam.unibe.ch:8080/SCG/520

Unfortunately there is no public running prototype yet. Alexander will
set-up a server very soon. Most of the needed code is there and working.
We have about 150 Test-Cases that are most running green!

 > 1) What would you say is the best starting point (It should
 > be faster than swiki)?
 > - start from scratch
 > - change the existing swiki

We considered using either SWiki or WikiWorks as a base, but did not
like very much those systems from the design point of view. So we
started from scratch.

 > - build with seaside

In my opinion Seaside is really the best framework for any kind of web-
application. Unfortunately it is not portable to dialects not supporting
continuations (Avi, correct me if I am wrong). And one of our goals was
to have a Wiki that is easily portable between dialects.

 > 2) What do you say about regular expressions. Is the plugin build in
 > in  the default VM or does the admin has to compile a new VM? Then I
 > had to  use Streams.

We have a parser building a tree of the content of a page. There are
nodes for any kind of entities like paragraphs, lists, per-formatted
text, internal and external links, smalltalk-code, ...

 > - pages sit in a tree (swiki has a graph structure)

Not only the pages are a composite of nodes, also the whole wiki
structure is a tree built of a composite. We do not limit to the model
of SWiki (Shelf, Book and Pages), we may nest at any deep. As internal
links are simply references to another entity, they automatically update
when we move something.

 > - userlogin
 > - permissions (from user to admin)
 > - permissions are bound to a user/page combination and are
 >    inherited down the tree.

A good security framework is really a problem in the current wiki
implementations. We have a model that is going to give the possibility
to have fine grained security checks: e.g. different permissions to 
view,
edit, add, remove, change, upload pages that might be attached to
different groups of users.

I hope that I could give you a brief overview of what I am doing right
now. As soon as things get up and running we are looking for
contributors writing cool extensions!

Cheers
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Tue Mar  4 21:58:06 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 21:58:06 +0100
Subject: License Question
Message-ID: <FFBA69A2-4E83-11D7-B92F-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



> For the licensing we do not know yet but it will not be GPL because 
> this is too bad :) so Mit or SqL. But lukas should decide.

I had a short look at several licenses: MIT, BSD, LGPL and SqueakL. If 
I could vote, I would prefer them in the given order.

I like the MIT license simply because it is easily understandable and I 
do not have to read 20 pages of difficult legal stuff ...

I do not like the Squeak license, because there is the name of Apple 
everywhere and there are some really strange things, as discussed in 
the Squeak mailing list. I don't have anything against apple, but I 
don't want non smalltalkers to think that they are using something from 
apple.

What do you think?

Lukas

--

The MIT License

Copyright (c) 2003 Lukas Renggli
Copyright (c) 2003 Software Composition Group, University of Berne

Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a 
copy of this software and associated documentation files (the 
"Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction, including 
without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, 
distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Software, and to 
permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so, subject to 
the following conditions:

The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included 
in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.

THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS 
OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF 
MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT.  
IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY 
CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, 
TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE 
SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Wed Mar  5 12:23:28 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 12:23:28 +0100
Subject: VisualWorks Image Destroyed
In-Reply-To: <6CC9E0D4-4EF9-11D7-9158-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <E370A539-4EFC-11D7-9158-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



>> Lukas I'm really wondering if we could not use SmallWiki.
>
> Sure, just hang on a few hours. The storage is almost working now, 
> have to write some tests now ;-)

I've just completely fucked-up my image. It has grown from a few MB to 
a whole GB and it does not load anymore when I try start VW. So I had a 
look at the changeset-file (working.cha) and there seems to be all the 
code that I wrote this morning.

Does anybody knows how to load part of that stuff?

Cheers
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Wed Mar  5 12:23:28 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 12:23:28 +0100
Subject: VisualWorks Image Destroyed
In-Reply-To: <6CC9E0D4-4EF9-11D7-9158-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <E370A539-4EFC-11D7-9158-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



>> Lukas I'm really wondering if we could not use SmallWiki.
>
> Sure, just hang on a few hours. The storage is almost working now, 
> have to write some tests now ;-)

I've just completely fucked-up my image. It has grown from a few MB to 
a whole GB and it does not load anymore when I try start VW. So I had a 
look at the changeset-file (working.cha) and there seems to be all the 
code that I wrote this morning.

Does anybody knows how to load part of that stuff?

Cheers
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Wed Mar  5 12:34:35 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 12:34:35 +0100
Subject: VisualWorks Image Destroyed
In-Reply-To: <E370A539-4EFC-11D7-9158-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <71213DEB-4EFE-11D7-9158-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



> Does anybody knows how to load part of that stuff?

Smalltalk is really cool: It was not that difficult to replay 
everything that I did this morning:

- open Tools | Change List
- open the changeset
- select position where it should start
- choose Replay All | From Here

Sorry for asking unnecessary questions!

Cheers
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Wed Mar  5 12:34:35 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 12:34:35 +0100
Subject: VisualWorks Image Destroyed
In-Reply-To: <E370A539-4EFC-11D7-9158-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <71213DEB-4EFE-11D7-9158-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



> Does anybody knows how to load part of that stuff?

Smalltalk is really cool: It was not that difficult to replay 
everything that I did this morning:

- open Tools | Change List
- open the changeset
- select position where it should start
- choose Replay All | From Here

Sorry for asking unnecessary questions!

Cheers
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From hannes.hirzel.squeaklist at bluewin.ch  Wed Mar  5 12:44:00 2003
From: hannes.hirzel.squeaklist at bluewin.ch (Hannes Hirzel)
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 12:44:00 +0100
Subject: VisualWorks Image Destroyed
Message-ID: <3E1029A20064D0B1@mail2.bluewin.ch>



Lukas Renggli <renggli at student.unibe.ch> wrote:
> >> Lukas I'm really wondering if we could not use SmallWiki.
> >
> > Sure, just hang on a few hours. The storage is almost working now, 
> > have to write some tests now ;-)
> 
> I've just completely fucked-up my image. It has grown from a few MB to 
> a whole GB and it does not load anymore when I try start VW. So I had a 
> look at the changeset-file (working.cha) and there seems to be all the 
> code that I wrote this morning.
> 
> Does anybody knows how to load part of that stuff?
> 
> Cheers
> Lukas

Do not hurry .... now you have got plenty of time... Read the manuals.

Actually the Smalltalk-IDE is great in recovering things.

The change sorter or something allows you to select parts of the changes
from today and load them! I'have done this a few times as well
but I do not rember the details.

I'm eagerly awaiting SmallWiki but be careful!

-- Hannes



From ducasse at iam.unibe.ch  Wed Mar  5 13:25:11 2003
From: ducasse at iam.unibe.ch (Stephane Ducasse)
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 13:25:11 +0100
Subject: Activity tracer
Message-ID: <82818A5D-4F05-11D7-88E9-000393B2AA24@iam.unibe.ch>



I would like to have the possibility to have a color/icon for the page 
that changes depending on
whether the page just is edited by somebody else.

stef


Prof. Dr. St?phane DUCASSE (ducasse at iam.unibe.ch) 
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/
  "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do
  different? ... especially if, by doing something different, today
  might not be your last day on earth" Calvin&Hobbes



From bergel at iam.unibe.ch  Wed Mar  5 14:27:48 2003
From: bergel at iam.unibe.ch (Alexandre Bergel)
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 14:27:48 +0100
Subject: Activity tracer
In-Reply-To: <82818A5D-4F05-11D7-88E9-000393B2AA24@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <82818A5D-4F05-11D7-88E9-000393B2AA24@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <20030305132748.GJ28047@iam.unibe.ch>




> I would like to have the possibility to have a color/icon for the page 
> that changes depending on
> whether the page just is edited by somebody else.

When a user try to edit a page, that would be great to know if someone else is editing...

Alexandre

> 
> stef
> 
> 
> Prof. Dr. St?phane DUCASSE (ducasse at iam.unibe.ch) 
> http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/
>  "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do
>  different? ... especially if, by doing something different, today
>  might not be your last day on earth" Calvin&Hobbes

-- 
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Bergel Alexandre  http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Wed Mar  5 14:37:30 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 14:37:30 +0100
Subject: VisualWorks Image Destroyed
In-Reply-To: <235B8133-4F01-11D7-88E9-000393B2AA24@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <9CE70A6C-4F0F-11D7-B4E4-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



> Did you find your problem?
> Stef

Yup, it was a problem with infinity recursion and critical sections. 
Everything looked up in inside thousands of critical sections building 
up and I think the VW just couldn't handle this anymore.

It is fixed now and there is even a stupid test checking for the 
absence of this problem. But it is quite hard to test such kind of code 
properly.

Give me a few more hours and SmallWiki should be safely usable with the 
basic SIXX storage attached.

Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Wed Mar  5 15:44:59 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 15:44:59 +0100
Subject: [BUG] VW-SIXX and Namespaces
Message-ID: <0A20796B-4F19-11D7-B4E4-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



Hi Masashi,

I am still struggling around with SIXX to store my wiki-data. Sometimes 
there are strange exceptions popping up, when loading from a stream, 
but I think that I could identify the problem finally:

	When streaming-out an object, SIXX does save the name
	of the class, but not the namespace where this class
	was defined in. When later loading, it does sometimes
	take the wrong class to instantiate.

I think this issue should be quite easy to fix, because there is just 
another attribute called 'sixx.environment' needed for each instance. 
Other Smalltalk implementation, that do not have namespace could simply 
ignore it and SIXX would be still dialect independent.

Unfortunately I am now stuck with SIXX, because it is loading wrong 
classes from other namespaces and throwing exceptions because of 
unknown instance-variables. :-(

Thanks for your help
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From ducasse at iam.unibe.ch  Wed Mar  5 21:54:03 2003
From: ducasse at iam.unibe.ch (Stephane Ducasse)
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 21:54:03 +0100
Subject: Mirrored pages could be a good feature.
Message-ID: <98E35162-4F4C-11D7-9EE4-000393B2AA24@iam.unibe.ch>




Prof. Dr. St?phane DUCASSE (ducasse at iam.unibe.ch) 
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/
  "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do
  different? ... especially if, by doing something different, today
  might not be your last day on earth" Calvin&Hobbes



From umejava at mars.dti.ne.jp  Thu Mar  6 08:30:43 2003
From: umejava at mars.dti.ne.jp (Masashi Umezawa)
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 16:30:43 +0900
Subject: [BUG] VW-SIXX and Namespaces
References: <0A20796B-4F19-11D7-B4E4-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <004f01c2e3b2$acb879d0$0200a8c0@qwerty>

Hi Lukas,

> I am still struggling around with SIXX to store my wiki-data. Sometimes
> there are strange exceptions popping up, when loading from a stream,
> but I think that I could identify the problem finally:
>
> When streaming-out an object, SIXX does save the name
> of the class, but not the namespace where this class
> was defined in. When later loading, it does sometimes
> take the wrong class to instantiate.

Oh... Sorry. I had noticed that there would be some problems handling
namespaced instances in SIXX. But I had no time to fix it and forgot.

> I think this issue should be quite easy to fix, because there is just
> another attribute called 'sixx.environment' needed for each instance.
> Other Smalltalk implementation, that do not have namespace could simply
> ignore it and SIXX would be still dialect independent.

Yes. Actually it is easy to fix. I've now finished the beta namespace
support.
Please try using the attached parcel. It seems to be working in both VW and
Squeak images.

Now SIXX has an option to select using namespace. To enable namespace
support,  do it once "SixxSetting useEnvironment: true".

Here is an example:

| text1 text2 array |
SixxSetting useEnvironment: true. "just making sure"

text1 := XML.Text text: 'this is test'.
text2 := Core.Text fromString:  'this is test too'.
array := Array with: text1 with: text2.
sixxString := array sixxString.
sixxString inspect.
(Object readSixxFrom: sixxString) inspect.

Hoping this helps,
---
[:masashi | ^umezawa]

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From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Thu Mar  6 09:18:11 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 09:18:11 +0100
Subject: [BUG] VW-SIXX and Namespaces
In-Reply-To: <004f01c2e3b2$acb879d0$0200a8c0@qwerty>
Message-ID: <2BD66941-4FAC-11D7-9C95-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



Hi Masashi,

> Yes. Actually it is easy to fix. I've now finished the beta namespace 
> support. Please try using the attached parcel. It seems to be working 
> in both VW and Squeak images.

Wow, thank you very much for your help. I loaded the parcel and set the 
settings as you described; then I ran all my storage test-cases and 
they all passed green. So it seems to work well now!

Again, thanks for your help
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Thu Mar  6 09:46:26 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 09:46:26 +0100
Subject: [BUG] Time now
Message-ID: <1E0551FF-4FB0-11D7-9C95-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



I am using the latest VisualWorks VM for Mac OS X and I just discovered 
that the class Time is returning the wrong hour:

	Time now printString '12:37:16 am'

I have done the above print-it at 09:37:16 o' clock system-time.

Does anybody has got an idea how to fix that? I think this is probably 
a bug in the VM, as on other OS it seems to work correctly.

Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Thu Mar  6 09:46:26 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 09:46:26 +0100
Subject: [BUG] Time now
Message-ID: <1E0551FF-4FB0-11D7-9C95-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



I am using the latest VisualWorks VM for Mac OS X and I just discovered 
that the class Time is returning the wrong hour:

	Time now printString '12:37:16 am'

I have done the above print-it at 09:37:16 o' clock system-time.

Does anybody has got an idea how to fix that? I think this is probably 
a bug in the VM, as on other OS it seems to work correctly.

Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Fri Mar  7 19:23:27 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 19:23:27 +0100
Subject: Patch and enhancements for SmallWiki ?
In-Reply-To: <20030307174608.448761f8.Serge.Stinckwich@info.unicaen.fr>
Message-ID: <E42D93BC-50C9-11D7-A2FC-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>

> how can i send you patches and enhancements for SmallWiki ?

Great!

Patches: I am not sure how to do this with VisualWorks the best. As I'm 
coming from the Squeak world, I would suggest to use Change-Sets. But 
there are probably better solutions using StORE, I just don't know.

Enhancements: I think that there will be setup a special SmallWiki 
StORE for the Smalltalk lecture. Probably you could publish your 
enhancements there.

> I already try to understand the whole framework.

I've attached a PDF of a small presentation I did about SmallWiki. The 
full demo was done inside the wiki itself, but it is somehow difficult 
to load, because it needs an unofficial alpha-patch to SIXX.

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Cheers
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org

From hannes.hirzel.squeaklist at bluewin.ch  Sat Mar  8 09:56:06 2003
From: hannes.hirzel.squeaklist at bluewin.ch (Hannes Hirzel)
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 09:56:06 +0100
Subject: SmallWiki alpha testing
Message-ID: <3E675F2600033D0E@mail5.bluewin.ch>




Hi Lukas

I would like to have a SmallWiki alpha release and help
with user level testing


- take a fresh Squeak 3.4 image
- load Comanche (which version?)
- load Smallwiki
- do various user level lests (description in use case style).
  I would come up with these use cases if they do not
  exist already.

What do you think?

Regards
Hannes



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Sat Mar  8 11:36:33 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 11:36:33 +0100
Subject: SmallWiki alpha testing
In-Reply-To: <3E675F2600033D0E@mail5.bluewin.ch>
Message-ID: <D4B2C35C-5151-11D7-A2FC-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



Hi Hannes

> I would like to have a SmallWiki alpha release and help
> with user level testing

Thanks for your help!

> - take a fresh Squeak 3.4 image
> - load Comanche (which version?)
> - load Smallwiki
> - do various user level lests (description in use case style).
>   I would come up with these use cases if they do not
>   exist already.

SmallWiki is developed using VisualWorks 7, there is no Squeak port 
yet. You should ask St?phane Ducasse for a StORE account. Then you 
could load it, run the tests and do whatever you like:

	 http://scgwiki.iam.unibe.ch:8080/SCG/527 (SmallWiki Development)

Other valuable information you might find on:

	http://scgwiki.iam.unibe.ch:8080/SCG/520 (SmallWiki)

Alexander will setup a SmallWiki-Server soon here at Bern, so we will 
minigrate all those SWiki pages soon.

Cheers
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From bergel at iam.unibe.ch  Sat Mar  8 12:13:42 2003
From: bergel at iam.unibe.ch (Alexandre Bergel)
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 12:13:42 +0100
Subject: SmallWiki alpha testing
In-Reply-To: <D4B2C35C-5151-11D7-A2FC-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>
References: <3E675F2600033D0E@mail5.bluewin.ch> <D4B2C35C-5151-11D7-A2FC-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <20030308111342.GA23014@iam.unibe.ch>



Hello!

Thanks for you help Hannes!
I am actively trying to make an easy-deployable release of the SmallWiki, but I get stuck with the RuntimePackager of VisualWorks. I have some troubles for having an end-user release, but let me try again before you offer your help :-)

Cheers,
Alexandre


On Sat, Mar 08, 2003 at 11:36:33AM +0100, Lukas Renggli wrote:
> Hi Hannes
> 
> >I would like to have a SmallWiki alpha release and help
> >with user level testing
> 
> Thanks for your help!
> 
> >- take a fresh Squeak 3.4 image
> >- load Comanche (which version?)
> >- load Smallwiki
> >- do various user level lests (description in use case style).
> >  I would come up with these use cases if they do not
> >  exist already.
> 
> SmallWiki is developed using VisualWorks 7, there is no Squeak port 
> yet. You should ask St?phane Ducasse for a StORE account. Then you 
> could load it, run the tests and do whatever you like:
> 
> 	 http://scgwiki.iam.unibe.ch:8080/SCG/527 (SmallWiki Development)
> 
> Other valuable information you might find on:
> 
> 	http://scgwiki.iam.unibe.ch:8080/SCG/520 (SmallWiki)
> 
> Alexander will setup a SmallWiki-Server soon here at Bern, so we will 
> minigrate all those SWiki pages soon.
> 
> Cheers
> Lukas
> 
> -- 
> Lukas Renggli
> http://renggli.freezope.org

-- 
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Bergel Alexandre  http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.



From ducasse at iam.unibe.ch  Sat Mar  8 12:10:18 2003
From: ducasse at iam.unibe.ch (Stephane Ducasse)
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 12:10:18 +0100
Subject: SmallWiki Process
In-Reply-To: <D4B2C35C-5151-11D7-A2FC-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <8BFAC33D-5156-11D7-9429-000393B2AA24@iam.unibe.ch>



Hi all

Lukas should publish SmallWiki on a the public store repository where 
everybody can take it.
We will have to think how we can get extensions, patches, integrate 
them into SmallWiki.

For now serge the best would be that you create a package in our local 
store with a well identified name.
Lukas could review what you do and introduce if this is good in 
SmallWiki.

In general, we should have a process to 
accept/integrate/evaluate/reject changes.
During that period we will learn what is the infrastructure we need to 
have plugging and extensions.

I think that we should have also a wiki page so that people can 
describe (a possibly upload a parcel)
  their extensions/fixes, and where lukas or the group of workers around 
SmallWiki will tell if the extensions
are introduced in SmallWiki distribution. The process should be 
transparent.

We could have an infrastructure for doing that automatically.

Stef


On Saturday, March 8, 2003, at 11:36 AM, Lukas Renggli wrote:

> Hi Hannes
>
>> I would like to have a SmallWiki alpha release and help
>> with user level testing
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
>> - take a fresh Squeak 3.4 image
>> - load Comanche (which version?)
>> - load Smallwiki
>> - do various user level lests (description in use case style).
>>   I would come up with these use cases if they do not
>>   exist already.
>
> SmallWiki is developed using VisualWorks 7, there is no Squeak port 
> yet. You should ask St?phane Ducasse for a StORE account. Then you 
> could load it, run the tests and do whatever you like:
>
> 	 http://scgwiki.iam.unibe.ch:8080/SCG/527 (SmallWiki Development)
>
> Other valuable information you might find on:
>
> 	http://scgwiki.iam.unibe.ch:8080/SCG/520 (SmallWiki)
>
> Alexander will setup a SmallWiki-Server soon here at Bern, so we will 
> minigrate all those SWiki pages soon.
>
> Cheers
> Lukas
>
> -- 
> Lukas Renggli
> http://renggli.freezope.org
>
>
Prof. Dr. St?phane DUCASSE (ducasse at iam.unibe.ch) 
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/
  "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do 
different? ...  especially if,
  by doing something different, today might not be your last day on 
earth" Calvin&Hobbes

"The best way to predict the future is to invent it..." Alan Kay.

Open Source Smalltalks: www.squeak.org, 
www.gnu.org/software/smalltalk/smalltalk.html
Free books for Universities at 
http://www.esug.org/sponsoring/promotionProgram.html
Free Online Book at www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/FreeBooks.html



From ducasse at iam.unibe.ch  Sat Mar  8 11:55:22 2003
From: ducasse at iam.unibe.ch (Stephane Ducasse)
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 11:55:22 +0100
Subject: Using Store for supporting distributed developpement
Message-ID: <757CB570-5154-11D7-9429-000393B2AA24@iam.unibe.ch>



Hi

We will release soon a first version of SmallWiki a new (and cool) Wiki 
implementation for VisualWorks.
We are thinking about how people can provide patches and extension.

I have the impression that for
	- an extension publishing a separate package is a good solution.
	- a patch may be publishing a parcel containing the patches that will 
then be reviewed, then incorporated.

Does anybody has some ideas or tried a process that is efficient?

Stef


Prof. Dr. St?phane DUCASSE (ducasse at iam.unibe.ch) 
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/
  "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do 
different? ...  especially if,
  by doing something different, today might not be your last day on 
earth" Calvin&Hobbes

"The best way to predict the future is to invent it..." Alan Kay.

Open Source Smalltalks: www.squeak.org, 
www.gnu.org/software/smalltalk/smalltalk.html
Free books for Universities at 
http://www.esug.org/sponsoring/promotionProgram.html
Free Online Book at www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/FreeBooks.html



From ducasse at iam.unibe.ch  Sat Mar  8 12:22:10 2003
From: ducasse at iam.unibe.ch (Stephane Ducasse)
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 12:22:10 +0100
Subject: SmallWiki alpha testing
In-Reply-To: <20030308111342.GA23014@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <3404F8CC-5158-11D7-9429-000393B2AA24@iam.unibe.ch>



Alex I think that having a SmallWiki running is more important than 
having a minimal image with Smallwiki (this is
the role of the runtime packager), for the moment we can simply load 
the parcels
or even specifying a small script on the command line. (I never tried 
this last solution but it can be simple and working enough).

The run-time packager is really for end users and even in this case may 
be having a nice script could be more efficient. So if you can focus on 
having SmallWiki up and running in a given place this will be really 
good.

Stef


On Saturday, March 8, 2003, at 12:13 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

> Hello!
>
> Thanks for you help Hannes!
> I am actively trying to make an easy-deployable release of the 
> SmallWiki, but I get stuck with the RuntimePackager of VisualWorks. I 
> have some troubles for having an end-user release, but let me try 
> again before you offer your help :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Alexandre
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 08, 2003 at 11:36:33AM +0100, Lukas Renggli wrote:
>> Hi Hannes
>>
>>> I would like to have a SmallWiki alpha release and help
>>> with user level testing
>>
>> Thanks for your help!
>>
>>> - take a fresh Squeak 3.4 image
>>> - load Comanche (which version?)
>>> - load Smallwiki
>>> - do various user level lests (description in use case style).
>>>  I would come up with these use cases if they do not
>>>  exist already.
>>
>> SmallWiki is developed using VisualWorks 7, there is no Squeak port
>> yet. You should ask St?phane Ducasse for a StORE account. Then you
>> could load it, run the tests and do whatever you like:
>>
>> 	 http://scgwiki.iam.unibe.ch:8080/SCG/527 (SmallWiki Development)
>>
>> Other valuable information you might find on:
>>
>> 	http://scgwiki.iam.unibe.ch:8080/SCG/520 (SmallWiki)
>>
>> Alexander will setup a SmallWiki-Server soon here at Bern, so we will
>> minigrate all those SWiki pages soon.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Lukas
>>
>> -- 
>> Lukas Renggli
>> http://renggli.freezope.org
>
> -- 
> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
> Bergel Alexandre  http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel
> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>
>
Prof. Dr. St?phane DUCASSE (ducasse at iam.unibe.ch) 
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/
  "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do 
different? ...  especially if,
  by doing something different, today might not be your last day on 
earth" Calvin&Hobbes

"The best way to predict the future is to invent it..." Alan Kay.

Open Source Smalltalks: www.squeak.org, 
www.gnu.org/software/smalltalk/smalltalk.html
Free books for Universities at 
http://www.esug.org/sponsoring/promotionProgram.html
Free Online Book at www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/FreeBooks.html



From eliot at parcplace.com  Sat Mar  8 23:12:08 2003
From: eliot at parcplace.com (eliot@parcplace.com)
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 14:12:08 -0800
Subject: Using Store for supporting distributed developpement
Message-ID: <200303082216.OAA25477@central.parcplace.com>



Stephane,

	the parcel loader now supports reloading and the bugs of the initial 5i.3 implementation are fixed.  So one can simply publish a new complete version and have users reload it.  The parcel loader then does a binary compare of the system's current parcel with the new version being loaded and updates only those methods that have changed, removing methods no longer in the parcel, adding new ones, and replacing ones that have changed.

Using parcel reloading avoids problems with maintennance of patches.  Reloading also works forwards and backwards in that one can reload an older version over a newer version to revert to a previous version.

+-----------------------------
| Date:	Sat, 08 Mar 2003 11:55:22 +0100
| From:	Stephane Ducasse <ducasse at iam.unibe.ch>
| Subject:	Using Store for supporting distributed developpement


| Hi

| We will release soon a first version of SmallWiki a new (and cool) Wiki =

| implementation for VisualWorks.
| We are thinking about how people can provide patches and extension.

| I have the impression that for
| 	- an extension publishing a separate package is a good solution.
| 	- a patch may be publishing a parcel containing the patches that will=20
| then be reviewed, then incorporated.

| Does anybody has some ideas or tried a process that is efficient?

| Stef


| Prof. Dr. St=E9phane DUCASSE (ducasse at iam.unibe.ch)=20
| http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/
|   "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do=20
| different? ...  especially if,
|   by doing something different, today might not be your last day on=20
| earth" Calvin&Hobbes

| "The best way to predict the future is to invent it..." Alan Kay.

| Open Source Smalltalks: www.squeak.org,=20
| www.gnu.org/software/smalltalk/smalltalk.html
| Free books for Universities at=20
| http://www.esug.org/sponsoring/promotionProgram.html
| Free Online Book at www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/FreeBooks.html
---
Eliot Miranda               ,,,^..^,,,               mailto:eliot at parcplace.com
VisualWorks Engineering, Cincom  Smalltalk: scene not herd  Tel +1 408 216 4581
3350 Scott Blvd, Bldg 36 Suite B, Santa Clara, CA 95054 USA Fax +1 408 216 4500




From michaell at spiritshigh.com  Sat Mar  8 23:27:13 2003
From: michaell at spiritshigh.com (Michael Lucas-Smith)
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 09:27:13 +1100
Subject: Using Store for supporting distributed developpement
In-Reply-To: <757CB570-5154-11D7-9429-000393B2AA24@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <757CB570-5154-11D7-9429-000393B2AA24@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <549028556.20030309092713@spiritshigh.com>



David Murphy and I have been developing an IRC Client in VisualWorks
and using IRC to collaborate our distributed development efforts.

We use the public store to manage our source code and we use IRC to
communicate. For version 1.4.x of the IRC Client, it is intended that
we include links to the development environment to further encourage
collaborative development over IRC.

I recommend you adopt the public store as your source code repository
and adopt TypeLess (our IRC client) as the tool to meet to discuss
bugs/patches/enhancements of your wiki. It would be ideal if we could
find ways to integrate SmallWiki and the TypeLess 1.4.x series
together - just as it would be idea to find ways to integrate James's
blogging and RSS feeds into the process as well.

I firmly believe we're on the verge of a distributed development
breakthrough.

Saturday, March 8, 2003, 9:55:22 PM, you wrote:

SD> Hi

SD> We will release soon a first version of SmallWiki a new (and cool) Wiki 
SD> implementation for VisualWorks.
SD> We are thinking about how people can provide patches and extension.

SD> I have the impression that for
SD>         - an extension publishing a separate package is a good solution.
SD>         - a patch may be publishing a parcel containing the patches that will 
SD> then be reviewed, then incorporated.

SD> Does anybody has some ideas or tried a process that is efficient?

SD> Stef


SD> Prof. Dr. St?phane DUCASSE (ducasse at iam.unibe.ch) 
SD> http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/
SD>   "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do 
SD> different? ...  especially if,
SD>   by doing something different, today might not be your last day on 
SD> earth" Calvin&Hobbes

SD> "The best way to predict the future is to invent it..." Alan Kay.

SD> Open Source Smalltalks: www.squeak.org, 
SD> www.gnu.org/software/smalltalk/smalltalk.html
SD> Free books for Universities at 
SD> http://www.esug.org/sponsoring/promotionProgram.html
SD> Free Online Book at www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/FreeBooks.html



--
Michael
michaell at spiritshigh.com
www.spiritshigh.com



From ducasse at iam.unibe.ch  Sun Mar  9 17:08:13 2003
From: ducasse at iam.unibe.ch (Stephane Ducasse)
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 17:08:13 +0100
Subject: Using Store for supporting distributed developpement
In-Reply-To: <549028556.20030309092713@spiritshigh.com>
Message-ID: <5476C14A-5249-11D7-8261-000393B2AA24@iam.unibe.ch>



Thanks for this information.

What we want to build with SmallWiki is a *platform* that others can 
extend and
we would like it to be at the core dialect independent.
So we will encourage people to extend, improve SmallWiki. Our point 
here is not
to be in competition with WikiWorks or SWiki but to offer a solution 
that brings synergy in the
community and that is extensible (at the price of changing its 
structure if needed).

We thought of using seaside to enable the page construction out of 
components. For the moment
we refrain to do that because GnuSmalltalk and Smalltalk/X do not 
support callcc functionality.

That's why we are interested in TwoFlowers, all kinds of backends (for 
now we use SIXX and
save the image ;).

stef

On Saturday, March 8, 2003, at 11:27 PM, Michael Lucas-Smith wrote:

> David Murphy and I have been developing an IRC Client in VisualWorks
> and using IRC to collaborate our distributed development efforts.
>
> We use the public store to manage our source code and we use IRC to
> communicate. For version 1.4.x of the IRC Client, it is intended that
> we include links to the development environment to further encourage
> collaborative development over IRC.
>
> I recommend you adopt the public store as your source code repository
> and adopt TypeLess (our IRC client) as the tool to meet to discuss
> bugs/patches/enhancements of your wiki. It would be ideal if we could
> find ways to integrate SmallWiki and the TypeLess 1.4.x series
> together - just as it would be idea to find ways to integrate James's
> blogging and RSS feeds into the process as well.
>
> I firmly believe we're on the verge of a distributed development
> breakthrough.
>
> Saturday, March 8, 2003, 9:55:22 PM, you wrote:
>
> SD> Hi
>
> SD> We will release soon a first version of SmallWiki a new (and cool) 
> Wiki
> SD> implementation for VisualWorks.
> SD> We are thinking about how people can provide patches and extension.
>
> SD> I have the impression that for
> SD>         - an extension publishing a separate package is a good 
> solution.
> SD>         - a patch may be publishing a parcel containing the 
> patches that will
> SD> then be reviewed, then incorporated.
>
> SD> Does anybody has some ideas or tried a process that is efficient?
>
> SD> Stef
>
>
> SD> Prof. Dr. St?phane DUCASSE (ducasse at iam.unibe.ch)
> SD> http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/
> SD>   "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do
> SD> different? ...  especially if,
> SD>   by doing something different, today might not be your last day on
> SD> earth" Calvin&Hobbes
>
> SD> "The best way to predict the future is to invent it..." Alan Kay.
>
> SD> Open Source Smalltalks: www.squeak.org,
> SD> www.gnu.org/software/smalltalk/smalltalk.html
> SD> Free books for Universities at
> SD> http://www.esug.org/sponsoring/promotionProgram.html
> SD> Free Online Book at www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/FreeBooks.html
>
>
>
> --
> Michael
> michaell at spiritshigh.com
> www.spiritshigh.com
>
>
Prof. Dr. St?phane DUCASSE (ducasse at iam.unibe.ch) 
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/
  "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do 
different? ...  especially if,
  by doing something different, today might not be your last day on 
earth" Calvin&Hobbes

"The best way to predict the future is to invent it..." Alan Kay.

Open Source Smalltalks: www.squeak.org, 
www.gnu.org/software/smalltalk/smalltalk.html
Free books for Universities at 
http://www.esug.org/sponsoring/promotionProgram.html
Free Online Book at www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/FreeBooks.html



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Tue Mar 11 13:08:02 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 13:08:02 +0100
Subject: Smallwiki and Storage
In-Reply-To: <20030311111529.GQ10531@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <1BA16C56-53BA-11D7-A1CC-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



Hi Alex,

> I would to know a bit more about the storage process. Right now, I 
> have a swiki running on my machine (moore.unibe.ch:8080) but if I stop 
> the process, everything is lost. How do you think we could manage > 
> that.

Right, there is no storage defined by default. But if you start your 
sever (or modify the running one) using the following code, every 
change will be dumped out with SIXX immediately.

	server := SmallWiki.SwazooServer startOn: 8080.
	server storage: SIXXStorage new.

Make sure you use the patched version of SIXX (it is version 3.0 in the 
SCG StORE), since the official one has got a sever bug and made it 
impossible to load the data again.

> If you want, we can meet us when you can.

Today I am working here at the SCG student-pool, so you can come and we 
could discuss before the official meeting at 16:30.

Cheers
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Tue Mar 11 22:44:36 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 22:44:36 +0100
Subject: self halt
Message-ID: <A7417056-540A-11D7-9FF4-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



Ok, I just fixed the nasty problem with

	self halt

in the serving part of the code. It is now save to use it and all other 
exceptions still get processed correctly.

This is really a quite useful piece of code, as everybody might follow 
now how the page is processed, generated, etc. I wished I implemented 
that earlier ;-)

Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Wed Mar 12 17:41:58 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 17:41:58 +0100
Subject: Template Components
Message-ID: <8AE157B4-54A9-11D7-9FF4-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



Hi,

as we discovered some severe design issues in the coding session 
yesterday, I am now rewriting the complete rendering and template 
related classes.

The main idea is to use components and visitors, instead of the static 
template rendering classes I used in my first approach. I think the 
best is to give an example:

To define the components visible on a page you create simply a 
composite of different template components. Please note, that this is 
independent of the actual design of your site, you just specify the 
basic layout, say:

	I want the wiki title on top. On the next line the current path
	should be displayed. Then we have two columns: on the
	left there is an operation-menu and a list of references and
	on the right there is the actual page content.

	^TemplateRoot new
		add: TemplateGlobalTitle new;
		add: TemplatePath new;
		add: (TemplateColumns new
			add: (TemplateRows new
				add: TemplateOperations new;
				add: TemplateReferences new;
				yourself);
			add: (TemplateRows new
				add: TemplatePageTitle new;
				add: TemplatePageContent new;
				yourself);
			yourself);
		yourself

The rendering is done using an visitor. It walks trough the tree (and 
if necessary also trough your document) and creates the html in its own 
design. If you like to have a different look you have to subclass the 
visitor.

To implement a new widget (e.g. a history functionality) we simply 
create a new component and create a class-extension to the 
rendering-visitor to render our widget.

You might already have a look at the code, if you like. But be warned, 
it has been tagged as "Under progress" because the code is quite a mess 
(unused code) now and there are a lot of bugs to be expected. Also I 
have not written a cool renderer yet, so you will feel like in the good 
old Lynx days ...

Cheers
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Wed Mar 12 20:16:59 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 20:16:59 +0100
Subject: Template Components
In-Reply-To: <8AE157B4-54A9-11D7-9FF4-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <326C0922-54BF-11D7-9FF4-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



> You might already have a look at the code, if you like. But be warned, 
> it has been tagged as "Under progress" because the code is quite a 
> mess (unused code) now and there are a lot of bugs to be expected. 
> Also I have not written a cool renderer yet, so you will feel like in 
> the good old Lynx days ...

All of the SmallWiki stuff is up and running again with the new 
template components. The html rendering is still very basic, but I will 
continue working on this and the security related stuff tomorrow. I 
really try to have an almost finished version by the end of the week.

As the templates have changed the old management screen is not working 
anymore. I do create my templates using the transcript, but it would be 
cool to have a good user interface. So I suggest is to add another 
project to the Smalltalk lecture :-)

	Template Composition Management Interface:

	The user should be able to compose and modify the settings
	of the components he like to have on his wiki pages in the web
	browser. This topic could be easily combined with the creation
	of additional template-components and/or other design
	renderers.

Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From ducasse at asterix.unibe.ch  Wed Mar 12 20:32:34 2003
From: ducasse at asterix.unibe.ch (Stephane Ducasse)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 20:32:34 +0100
Subject: Template Components
In-Reply-To: <8AE157B4-54A9-11D7-9FF4-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <6005FE24-54C1-11D7-A947-000393B2AA24@iam.unibe.ch>



Sounds quite good.

Stef


On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 05:41 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote:

> Hi,
>
> as we discovered some severe design issues in the coding session 
> yesterday, I am now rewriting the complete rendering and template 
> related classes.
>
> The main idea is to use components and visitors, instead of the static 
> template rendering classes I used in my first approach. I think the 
> best is to give an example:
>
> To define the components visible on a page you create simply a 
> composite of different template components. Please note, that this is 
> independent of the actual design of your site, you just specify the 
> basic layout, say:
>
> 	I want the wiki title on top. On the next line the current path
> 	should be displayed. Then we have two columns: on the
> 	left there is an operation-menu and a list of references and
> 	on the right there is the actual page content.
>
> 	^TemplateRoot new
> 		add: TemplateGlobalTitle new;
> 		add: TemplatePath new;
> 		add: (TemplateColumns new
> 			add: (TemplateRows new
> 				add: TemplateOperations new;
> 				add: TemplateReferences new;
> 				yourself);
> 			add: (TemplateRows new
> 				add: TemplatePageTitle new;
> 				add: TemplatePageContent new;
> 				yourself);
> 			yourself);
> 		yourself
>
> The rendering is done using an visitor. It walks trough the tree (and 
> if necessary also trough your document) and creates the html in its 
> own design. If you like to have a different look you have to subclass 
> the visitor.
>
> To implement a new widget (e.g. a history functionality) we simply 
> create a new component and create a class-extension to the 
> rendering-visitor to render our widget.
>
> You might already have a look at the code, if you like. But be warned, 
> it has been tagged as "Under progress" because the code is quite a 
> mess (unused code) now and there are a lot of bugs to be expected. 
> Also I have not written a cool renderer yet, so you will feel like in 
> the good old Lynx days ...
>
> Cheers
> Lukas
>
> -- 
> Lukas Renggli
> http://renggli.freezope.org
>
>
Prof. Dr. St?phane DUCASSE (ducasse at iam.unibe.ch) 
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/
  "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do 
different? ...  especially if,
  by doing something different, today might not be your last day on 
earth" Calvin&Hobbes

"The best way to predict the future is to invent it..." Alan Kay.

Open Source Smalltalks: www.squeak.org, 
www.gnu.org/software/smalltalk/smalltalk.html
Free books for Universities at 
http://www.esug.org/sponsoring/promotionProgram.html
Free Online Book at www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/FreeBooks.html



From tudor.girba at iam.unibe.ch  Thu Mar 13 12:22:38 2003
From: tudor.girba at iam.unibe.ch (Tudor Girba)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 12:22:38 +0100
Subject: Template Components
In-Reply-To: <8AE157B4-54A9-11D7-9FF4-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <1902A614-5546-11D7-A8E0-000393710000@iam.unibe.ch>



Hi,

I think this is a much better approach. But, what I do not get is how 
you specify the alignment.

Doru.

On Wednesday, Mar 12, 2003, at 17:41 Europe/Zurich, Lukas Renggli wrote:

> Hi,
>
> as we discovered some severe design issues in the coding session 
> yesterday, I am now rewriting the complete rendering and template 
> related classes.
>
> The main idea is to use components and visitors, instead of the static 
> template rendering classes I used in my first approach. I think the 
> best is to give an example:
>
> To define the components visible on a page you create simply a 
> composite of different template components. Please note, that this is 
> independent of the actual design of your site, you just specify the 
> basic layout, say:
>
> 	I want the wiki title on top. On the next line the current path
> 	should be displayed. Then we have two columns: on the
> 	left there is an operation-menu and a list of references and
> 	on the right there is the actual page content.
>
> 	^TemplateRoot new
> 		add: TemplateGlobalTitle new;
> 		add: TemplatePath new;
> 		add: (TemplateColumns new
> 			add: (TemplateRows new
> 				add: TemplateOperations new;
> 				add: TemplateReferences new;
> 				yourself);
> 			add: (TemplateRows new
> 				add: TemplatePageTitle new;
> 				add: TemplatePageContent new;
> 				yourself);
> 			yourself);
> 		yourself
>
> The rendering is done using an visitor. It walks trough the tree (and 
> if necessary also trough your document) and creates the html in its 
> own design. If you like to have a different look you have to subclass 
> the visitor.
>
> To implement a new widget (e.g. a history functionality) we simply 
> create a new component and create a class-extension to the 
> rendering-visitor to render our widget.
>
> You might already have a look at the code, if you like. But be warned, 
> it has been tagged as "Under progress" because the code is quite a 
> mess (unused code) now and there are a lot of bugs to be expected. 
> Also I have not written a cool renderer yet, so you will feel like in 
> the good old Lynx days ...
>
> Cheers
> Lukas
>
> -- 
> Lukas Renggli
> http://renggli.freezope.org
>
>
--
Tudor Adrian Girba                      Software Composition Group
(www.iam.unibe.ch/~girba)        University of Bern, Switzerland

"We cannot reach the flow of things unless we let go."



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Thu Mar 13 12:27:02 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 12:27:02 +0100
Subject: Problem with 1.166
In-Reply-To: <20030313114955.03bfc74e.Serge.Stinckwich@info.unicaen.fr>
Message-ID: <B6177EB9-5546-11D7-9FF4-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



> i'm trying the new 1.166 version of SmallWiki. After launching the 
> server, there is an 500 Internal Server Error on 
> http://localhost:8080/ and i've got a Message not understood: #value 
> in the Launcher workspace

I loaded 1.166 into a fresh image and it seems to work well on my 
machine when executing

	SmallWiki.SwazooServer startOn: 8080

It looks like a problem of the Swazoo-Server, but I don't know. Could 
you send me the stack-dump you get?

Have you run the tests? On my machine I got just one failed 
(StorageTests>>testStorage), because StORE did not load the SIXX bundle 
correctly. I am not a StORE-Expert and I absolutely do not understand 
why it does not load everything inside the SIXX bundle. Roel could you 
have a look at this?

Cheers
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Thu Mar 13 12:31:18 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 12:31:18 +0100
Subject: Template Components
In-Reply-To: <1902A614-5546-11D7-A8E0-000393710000@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <4F000BA3-5547-11D7-9FF4-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



> I think this is a much better approach.

Me too ;-)

> But, what I do not get is how you specify the alignment.

The alignment is done by a renderer. The renderer is a visitor, that is 
walking trough the template-composite and displays all the components 
(and its alignments) as he likes or as he was configured to do.

HTH
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From tudor.girba at iam.unibe.ch  Thu Mar 13 12:47:08 2003
From: tudor.girba at iam.unibe.ch (Tudor Girba)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 12:47:08 +0100
Subject: Template Components
In-Reply-To: <4F000BA3-5547-11D7-9FF4-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <8514C3FE-5549-11D7-A8E0-000393710000@iam.unibe.ch>



Hi,

On Thursday, Mar 13, 2003, at 12:31 Europe/Zurich, Lukas Renggli wrote:
>> But, what I do not get is how you specify the alignment.
>
> The alignment is done by a renderer. The renderer is a visitor, that 
> is walking trough the template-composite and displays all the 
> components (and its alignments) as he likes or as he was configured to 
> do.

Yep, I get it, I just thought you forgot to talk about it in the 
previous mail, but I re-read it and this issue is actually described :).

Again, nice job.

Doru.



From bergel at iam.unibe.ch  Thu Mar 13 12:51:01 2003
From: bergel at iam.unibe.ch (Alexandre Bergel)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 12:51:01 +0100
Subject: [BUG][FIX]Opening a port
Message-ID: <20030313115101.GA4438@iam.unibe.ch>



Hello!

I have found bug when I tried to deploy Smallwiki.
Here is the method I've changed:
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
SmallWiki.SwazooServer>>start
	swazoo port: self port.
	swazoo ip: '*'.
	swazoo start
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

The idea was to change 'localhost' by '*'.

Having 'localhost' allows only __local__ connection. For instance, I couldn't connect to the smallwiki from a web browser launched on a different host.

I didn't check the documentation of Swazoo (is there any?), so what I just said is the result of my personnal experience.

Cheers,
Alexandre

-- 
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Bergel Alexandre  http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Thu Mar 13 13:35:22 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 13:35:22 +0100
Subject: [BUG][FIX]Opening a port
In-Reply-To: <20030313115101.GA4438@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <421D5EB2-5550-11D7-9FF4-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



Hi Alexandre,

> I have found bug when I tried to deploy Smallwiki.
> Here is the method I've changed:
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> SmallWiki.SwazooServer>>start
> 	swazoo port: self port.
> 	swazoo ip: '*'.
> 	swazoo start
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
> The idea was to change 'localhost' by '*'.
>
> Having 'localhost' allows only __local__ connection. For instance, I 
> couldn't connect to the smallwiki from a web browser launched on a 
> different host.

I didn't know about that problem, but I think you are right. I could 
reproduce the problem in my own network with laptop and pc. Your code 
does fix it. Unfortunately it is quite hard to write a test case to 
catch that kind of error.

I included your it into the latest distribution, but don't download it 
right now: the design looks terrible and the new template stuff is not 
working correctly yet (you only get exception traces).

> I didn't check the documentation of Swazoo (is there any?), so what I 
> just said is the result of my personnal experience.

There is very little documentation on Swazoo. Everything available 
should be reachable from the homepage http://swazoo.sourceforge.net. 
Most of the Swazoo code I was writing while looking at the source of 
the implementation and the examples.

Thanks for your help,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From bergel at iam.unibe.ch  Thu Mar 13 14:43:23 2003
From: bergel at iam.unibe.ch (Alexandre Bergel)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 14:43:23 +0100
Subject: Issue with SIXX
Message-ID: <20030313134323.GA9696@iam.unibe.ch>



Hello

When I load SmallWiki, VW asks me with release of SIXX I want. If I select 3.0 I get the following:
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Warning: Package "SIXX-VW" cannot be loaded.

The following classes cannot be loaded because their environment is not in the image nor in the package being loaded:  
    SixxPortableUtil (environment path: Root.Smalltalk.Sixx)
    Color (environment path: Root.Smalltalk.Sixx)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

So, I use the 2.0 release. As fas as I have seen, it doesn't make any difference...

Alexandre

-- 
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Bergel Alexandre  http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Thu Mar 13 21:34:43 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 21:34:43 +0100
Subject: Problem with 1.166
In-Reply-To: <20030313174347.66cd1899.Serge.Stinckwich@info.unicaen.fr>
Message-ID: <38CFE55C-5593-11D7-9FF4-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>




On Donnerstag, M?r 13, 2003, at 17:43 Europe/Zurich, Serge Stinckwich 
wrote:

> On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 12:27:02 +0100
> Lukas Renggli <renggli at student.unibe.ch> wrote:
>
>>> i'm trying the new 1.166 version of SmallWiki. After launching the
>>> server, there is an 500 Internal Server Error on
>>> http://localhost:8080/ and i've got a Message not understood: #value
>>> in the Launcher workspace
>>
>> I loaded 1.166 into a fresh image and it seems to work well on my
>> machine when executing
>>
>> 	SmallWiki.SwazooServer startOn: 8080
>>
>> It looks like a problem of the Swazoo-Server, but I don't know. Could
>> you send me the stack-dump you get?
>>
>> Have you run the tests? On my machine I got just one failed
>> (StorageTests>>testStorage), because StORE did not load the SIXX 
>> bundle
>> correctly. I am not a StORE-Expert and I absolutely do not understand
>> why it does not load everything inside the SIXX bundle. Roel could you
>> have a look at this?
>
> Sorry to bother you again.
> I just found my problem. It's a bit strange ...
>
> I use Mozilla. When i use http://localhost:8080/ it doesn't work. It 
> works with http://127.0.0.1:8080/
> Seems to be a Mozilla related problem. I have no problem with Konqueror

Just today Alexandre found a bug, that is related to that problem.

	SmallWiki.SwazooServer>>start
		swazoo port: self port.
		swazoo ip: '*'.					"this line have to be changed"
		swazoo start

Note that the latest releases are somehow ugly, as I was changing the 
rendering stuff and did not implement a cool layout yet. There are also 
some new bugs introduced ;-)

Cheers
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org




From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Thu Mar 13 21:39:03 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 21:39:03 +0100
Subject: Issue with SIXX
In-Reply-To: <20030313134323.GA9696@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <D3F8216C-5593-11D7-9FF4-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



Hi,

> When I load SmallWiki, VW asks me with release of SIXX I want.

See the last paragraph of my e-mail to server and the mailing-list 
tomorrow. I am trying to fix that now, but I don't understand the 
problem really.

> So, I use the 2.0 release. As fas as I have seen, it doesn't make any 
> difference...

IMPORTANT: You *have to* take the Version 3.0 (or a better one, when I 
finally manage to fix the loading problems), as otherwise you won't be 
able to load the data ever again! There is a sever VW bug in the 
original version of SIXX.

Cheers
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Thu Mar 13 22:36:46 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 22:36:46 +0100
Subject: Problem with StORE
Message-ID: <E4316B80-559B-11D7-9FF4-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



Hi Roel,

there is really something wrong with the SIXX-bundle as VW is unable to 
load it into a fresh image. I tried now almost an hour to get it 
running, but I always get the same error when loading in a new image:

	Warning: Package "SIXX-VW" cannot be loaded.

	The following classes cannot be loaded because their
	environment is not in the image nor in the package
	being loaded:

	SixxPortableUtil (environment path: Root.Smalltalk.Sixx)
   	Color (environment path: Root.Smalltalk.Sixx)

Do you have any idea, what the problem could be?

Thanks for your help,
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From roel.wuyts at asterix.unibe.ch  Thu Mar 13 22:51:53 2003
From: roel.wuyts at asterix.unibe.ch (Roel Wuyts)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 22:51:53 +0100
Subject: Problem with StORE
In-Reply-To: <E4316B80-559B-11D7-9FF4-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <00C1D6C1-559E-11D7-81CE-003065CC9F36@iam.unibe.ch>



The SIXX Namespace was missing from the bundle/packages. I added it, 
and now it works in a clean image.

On Thursday, March 13, 2003, at 10:36 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote:

> Hi Roel,
>
> there is really something wrong with the SIXX-bundle as VW is unable 
> to load it into a fresh image. I tried now almost an hour to get it 
> running, but I always get the same error when loading in a new image:
>
> 	Warning: Package "SIXX-VW" cannot be loaded.
>
> 	The following classes cannot be loaded because their
> 	environment is not in the image nor in the package
> 	being loaded:
>
> 	SixxPortableUtil (environment path: Root.Smalltalk.Sixx)
>   	Color (environment path: Root.Smalltalk.Sixx)
>
> Do you have any idea, what the problem could be?
>
> Thanks for your help,
> Lukas
>
> -- 
> Lukas Renggli
> http://renggli.freezope.org
>
>
Roel Wuyts                                                   Software 
Composition Group
roel.wuyts at iam.unibe.ch                       University of Bern, 
Switzerland
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~wuyts/
Board Member of the European Smalltalk User Group: www.esug.org



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Sun Mar 16 13:00:31 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 13:00:31 +0100
Subject: Template-System Ready
Message-ID: <E2E4140E-57A6-11D7-A0ED-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



Hi all,

The new template-system is now ready to use. Unfortunately I had no 
time to write tests yet. It was quite a lot of work to do.

Another drawback is that there is no web-interface to change the 
rendering and template-properties anymore. But one can easily do it 
from the workspace. Just to give you an idea how to use it, I have 
attached a dump of my workspace at the end of the e-mail.

Stef: Could you tell me, when I should come for the presentation on 
Monday?

Cheers
Lukas

--

"server"
server := SmallWiki.SwazooServer startOn: 8080.
server root: server defaultRoot.
server stop.

"storage"
server storage: SIXXStorage new.
server storage: ImageStorage new.

"designs"

	"basic"
	server root renderer: VisitorRendererHtml.
	server root template: VisitorRendererHtml defaultTemplate.

	"light"
	server root renderer: VisitorRendererHtmlLight.
	server root template: VisitorRendererHtmlLight defaultTemplate.

	"wiki works"
	server root renderer: VisitorRendererHtmlWikiWorks.
	server root template: VisitorRendererHtmlWikiWorks defaultTemplate.

"options"
HtmlWriteStream prettyPrint: false.
HtmlWriteStream prettyPrint: true.

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From hannes.hirzel.squeaklist at bluewin.ch  Sun Mar 16 14:56:40 2003
From: hannes.hirzel.squeaklist at bluewin.ch (Hannes Hirzel)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 14:56:40 +0100
Subject: Template-System Ready
Message-ID: <3E674A7B0013F5B4@mail2.bluewin.ch>



Lukas Renggli <renggli at student.unibe.ch> wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> The new template-system is now ready to use. Unfortunately I had no 
> time to write tests yet. It was quite a lot of work to do.
> 
> Another drawback is that there is no web-interface to change the 
> rendering and template-properties anymore. 

No big deal. I like the easy to use Smalltalk text interface you give
below.

> But one can easily do it 
> from the workspace. Just to give you an idea how to use it, I have 
> attached a dump of my workspace at the end of the e-mail.
> 

I'm really awaiting a first alpha or beta release!

-- Hannes


> 
> "server"
> server := SmallWiki.SwazooServer startOn: 8080.
> server root: server defaultRoot.
> server stop.
> 
> "storage"
> server storage: SIXXStorage new.
> server storage: ImageStorage new.
> 
> "designs"
> 
> 	"basic"
> 	server root renderer: VisitorRendererHtml.
> 	server root template: VisitorRendererHtml defaultTemplate.
> 
> 	"light"
> 	server root renderer: VisitorRendererHtmlLight.
> 	server root template: VisitorRendererHtmlLight defaultTemplate.
> 
> 	"wiki works"
> 	server root renderer: VisitorRendererHtmlWikiWorks.
> 	server root template: VisitorRendererHtmlWikiWorks defaultTemplate.
> 
> "options"
> HtmlWriteStream prettyPrint: false.
> HtmlWriteStream prettyPrint: true.
> 
> -- 
> Lukas Renggli
> http://renggli.freezope.org



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Mon Mar 17 19:29:49 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 19:29:49 +0100
Subject: Swazoo-Server: Access Problem
Message-ID: <6FD91C13-58A6-11D7-A0ED-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



Hi Janko,

as you know from past discussions, I am developing a new Smalltalk-Wiki 
using Swazoo as web-server. St?phane Ducasse is starting a lecture the 
next week about Smalltalk using the Wiki as code-base for extensions 
developed by the students. So what we need urgently now is to get a 
public Server running.

Unfortunately we experience some very strange problems with Swazoo: We 
are using a Linux box with VisualWorks 7 as server and there seems to 
be a problem to connect the server from certain machines. For localhost 
and some other external machines it works perfectly.

So what we thought about first, is that it could be an internal problem 
of the network of the university (firewall, subnet, ...). But that does 
not seem to be the case, as when we set up Apache on the same machine 
and port we are able to connect perfectly from anywhere.

What I am doing to start the server is basically the following:

	server := Swazoo.HTTPServer new.
	server addSite: self defaultWikiSite.
	server port: 8080.
	server ip: '*'.
	server start.

We are unsure about the message #ip: that is not documented anywhere. 
To what kind of value should it be set? Or is there a completely 
different problem we don't see? Your help is really appreciated!

Thanks a lot in a
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org


From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Mon Mar 17 20:01:11 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 20:01:11 +0100
Subject: SmallWiki Examples
Message-ID: <D19968D6-58AA-11D7-BEA0-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



Hi everybody,

I cleaned up the two examples we have so far. Make sure that you have a 
working SmallWiki in your image and then load the following extension 
packages from StORE.

	SmallWiki Glossary
	Example how to create a completely new component with
	a new action to render its html-view and a visitor to collect
	some data in the wiki.

	SmallWiki Presentation
	This example shows how to create a wiki using smalltalk
	code. There is also a special rendering-visitor for the big
	fonts and navigation controls. Note that you won't actually
	be able to use this package as you need the images of my
	slides on your machine.

More examples are expected to come soon ;-)

Cheers
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From bergel at iam.unibe.ch  Tue Mar 18 11:07:15 2003
From: bergel at iam.unibe.ch (Alexandre Bergel)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 11:07:15 +0100
Subject: Swazoo-Server: Access Problem
In-Reply-To: <6FD91C13-58A6-11D7-A0ED-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>
References: <6FD91C13-58A6-11D7-A0ED-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <20030318100715.GL23968@iam.unibe.ch>



Hello Janko,

I have an idea where the probleme come from. I have modified the method 
SwazooSocket>>serverOnIP:port: by changing the piece of code

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
socket
	setOptionsLevel: 
		(OSHandle currentOS = #win32 ifTrue: [SocketAccessor solSocket] ifFalse: [0])
	name: SocketAccessor soReuseaddr
	value: 1.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
by
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
socket soReuseaddr: true.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Now it works (i.e., we can access the server (connecting to this socket)) 
whatever the ip of the client. 

Please, tell me what do you think about this assumption

Regards,
Alexandre


On Mon, Mar 17, 2003 at 07:29:49PM +0100, Lukas Renggli wrote:
> Hi Janko,
> 
> as you know from past discussions, I am developing a new Smalltalk-Wiki 
> using Swazoo as web-server. St?phane Ducasse is starting a lecture the 
> next week about Smalltalk using the Wiki as code-base for extensions 
> developed by the students. So what we need urgently now is to get a 
> public Server running.
> 
> Unfortunately we experience some very strange problems with Swazoo: We 
> are using a Linux box with VisualWorks 7 as server and there seems to 
> be a problem to connect the server from certain machines. For localhost 
> and some other external machines it works perfectly.
> 
> So what we thought about first, is that it could be an internal problem 
> of the network of the university (firewall, subnet, ...). But that does 
> not seem to be the case, as when we set up Apache on the same machine 
> and port we are able to connect perfectly from anywhere.
> 
> What I am doing to start the server is basically the following:
> 
> 	server := Swazoo.HTTPServer new.
> 	server addSite: self defaultWikiSite.
> 	server port: 8080.
> 	server ip: '*'.
> 	server start.
> 
> We are unsure about the message #ip: that is not documented anywhere. 
> To what kind of value should it be set? Or is there a completely 
> different problem we don't see? Your help is really appreciated!
> 
> Thanks a lot in a
> Lukas
> 
> -- 
> Lukas Renggli
> http://renggli.freezope.org

-- 
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Bergel Alexandre  http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Tue Mar 18 15:23:36 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 15:23:36 +0100
Subject: Swazoo-Server: Access Problem
In-Reply-To: <3E76ED89.6040006@eranova.si>
Message-ID: <34F3D5F6-594D-11D7-97A6-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



Hi Janko,

first of all: Thank you very much for your help!

>>     server := Swazoo.HTTPServer new.
>>     server addSite: self defaultWikiSite.
>>     server port: 8080.
>>     server ip: '*'.
>>     server start.
>
> Swazoo philosophy is a bit different as you start above. You first 
> make a new Site, configure host: ip: port: combination, and then start 
> it. This will start appropriate HTTPServer automatically. This also 
> makes possible to run many wikis on the same Swazoo server, and not 
> only wikis, you can run other resources (like AIDASite) in parallel. 
> Very usefull for hosting a lot of sites on the same server. Admins 
> love that :)

Ok, I see! This is something like the virtual host configuration of 
Apache. The reason why we start and configure swazoo from code and do 
not use the configuration file is the following:

	1. SmallWiki should be running out of the box, just by loading
	the source from StORE. We do not want that people have to
	modify external files before they are able to run it.

	2. We want to stay independent of any external library. So
	web-servers, storage, etc. should be pluggable in our wiki.

> So, in my new AIDA/Web with integrated Swazoo I start a thing that way:
>
> site := AIDASite new name:'eranova';
> 	host: 'www.eranova.si' ip: 'mici-web.eranova.si' port: 80.
> SwazooServer singleton addSite: site.
> SwazooServer startSite: 'eranova'

So AIDASite is a subclass of Site, I think. Until now I did use 
Resource as superclass for my SwazooWikiSite. Do you think I should 
change this?

The main problem is that I parse and analyze the url all by myself. 
Actually I do not care if there are additional path elements before. 
But when overriding the message #answerTo: of the Site-class it does 
not work! Do I have to change something else?

Thanks again for your help
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Tue Mar 18 15:23:36 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 15:23:36 +0100
Subject: Swazoo-Server: Access Problem
In-Reply-To: <3E76ED89.6040006@eranova.si>
Message-ID: <34F3D5F6-594D-11D7-97A6-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



Hi Janko,

first of all: Thank you very much for your help!

>>     server := Swazoo.HTTPServer new.
>>     server addSite: self defaultWikiSite.
>>     server port: 8080.
>>     server ip: '*'.
>>     server start.
>
> Swazoo philosophy is a bit different as you start above. You first 
> make a new Site, configure host: ip: port: combination, and then start 
> it. This will start appropriate HTTPServer automatically. This also 
> makes possible to run many wikis on the same Swazoo server, and not 
> only wikis, you can run other resources (like AIDASite) in parallel. 
> Very usefull for hosting a lot of sites on the same server. Admins 
> love that :)

Ok, I see! This is something like the virtual host configuration of 
Apache. The reason why we start and configure swazoo from code and do 
not use the configuration file is the following:

	1. SmallWiki should be running out of the box, just by loading
	the source from StORE. We do not want that people have to
	modify external files before they are able to run it.

	2. We want to stay independent of any external library. So
	web-servers, storage, etc. should be pluggable in our wiki.

> So, in my new AIDA/Web with integrated Swazoo I start a thing that way:
>
> site := AIDASite new name:'eranova';
> 	host: 'www.eranova.si' ip: 'mici-web.eranova.si' port: 80.
> SwazooServer singleton addSite: site.
> SwazooServer startSite: 'eranova'

So AIDASite is a subclass of Site, I think. Until now I did use 
Resource as superclass for my SwazooWikiSite. Do you think I should 
change this?

The main problem is that I parse and analyze the url all by myself. 
Actually I do not care if there are additional path elements before. 
But when overriding the message #answerTo: of the Site-class it does 
not work! Do I have to change something else?

Thanks again for your help
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From janko.mivsek at eranova.si  Tue Mar 18 16:35:07 2003
From: janko.mivsek at eranova.si (Janko Mivsek)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 16:35:07 +0100
Subject: Swazoo-Server: Access Problem
References: <34F3D5F6-594D-11D7-97A6-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <3E773CAB.4@eranova.si>



Lukas Renggli pi?e:

> Hi Janko,
>
> first of all: Thank you very much for your help! 

Always here :) I really like to join fragmented Smalltlak forces, and on 
web fornt I can help a bit ..

>
>>>     server := Swazoo.HTTPServer new.
>>>     server addSite: self defaultWikiSite.
>>>     server port: 8080.
>>>     server ip: '*'.
>>>     server start.
>>
>>
>> Swazoo philosophy is a bit different as you start above. You first 
>> make a new Site, configure host: ip: port: combination, and then 
>> start it. This will start appropriate HTTPServer automatically. This 
>> also makes possible to run many wikis on the same Swazoo server, and 
>> not only wikis, you can run other resources (like AIDASite) in 
>> parallel. Very usefull for hosting a lot of sites on the same server. 
>> Admins love that :)
>
>
> Ok, I see! This is something like the virtual host configuration of 
> Apache. The reason why we start and configure swazoo from code and do 
> not use the configuration file is the following:
>
>     1. SmallWiki should be running out of the box, just by loading
>     the source from StORE. We do not want that people have to
>     modify external files before they are able to run it. 

Agree a lot. I also drop configuration files from new AIDA/Web.

>
>
>     2. We want to stay independent of any external library. So
>     web-servers, storage, etc. should be pluggable in our wiki.

Here I do not agree. This is ok for standalone Wiki but no for a Wiki as 
part of entire site, which is my ideal.
My ideal soluion would therefore be:

    - create a new Site
    - add it to SiteRegistry (SwazooServer in new, not yet released Swazoo)
    - add SwazooWiki (as subclass of Resource) to above site

If you compose your Wiki that way, I can use it in AIDA/Web straight away!

>
>
>> So, in my new AIDA/Web with integrated Swazoo I start a thing that way:
>>
>> site := AIDASite new name:'eranova';
>>     host: 'www.eranova.si' ip: 'mici-web.eranova.si' port: 80.
>> SwazooServer singleton addSite: site.
>> SwazooServer startSite: 'eranova'
>
>
> So AIDASite is a subclass of Site, I think. Until now I did use 
> Resource as superclass for my SwazooWikiSite. Do you think I should 
> change this? 

Probably yes, because Site holds SiteIndentifier (host:ip:port: 
combination) for virtual sites. But I recommend to go in a way above, 
that is, to subclass a Resource (CompositeResource?) with SwazooWiki and 
add it to a Site, which is created first of course.

>
>
> The main problem is that I parse and analyze the url all by myself. 
> Actually I do not care if there are additional path elements before. 
> But when overriding the message #answerTo: of the Site-class it does 
> not work! Do I have to change something else? 

You can make your own Url resolution if you want in your Wiki resource. 
That way I did my new AIDA/Web, which also have its own url resolution. 
Overriding answerTo:  should work, just be carefull to return a proper 
HTTPResponse.

Janko

>
>
> Thanks again for your help
> Lukas
>

-- 
Janko Mivsek
Systems Architect
EraNova d.o.o.
Ljubljana, Slovenia
http://www.eranova.si





From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Tue Mar 18 20:17:31 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 20:17:31 +0100
Subject: Swazoo-Server: Access Problem
In-Reply-To: <3E773CAB.4@eranova.si>
Message-ID: <440F6F16-5976-11D7-97A6-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



Hi Janko,

> Here I do not agree. This is ok for standalone Wiki but no for a Wiki 
> as part of entire site, which is my ideal.
> My ideal soluion would therefore be:
>
>    - create a new Site
>    - add it to SiteRegistry (SwazooServer in new, not yet released 
> Swazoo)
>    - add SwazooWiki (as subclass of Resource) to above site
>
> If you compose your Wiki that way, I can use it in AIDA/Web straight 
> away!

Ok, that is exactly what I was doing up to now.

>> So AIDASite is a subclass of Site, I think. Until now I did use 
>> Resource as superclass for my SwazooWikiSite. Do you think I should 
>> change this?
>
> Probably yes, because Site holds SiteIndentifier (host:ip:port: 
> combination) for virtual sites. But I recommend to go in a way above, 
> that is, to subclass a Resource (CompositeResource?) with SwazooWiki 
> and add it to a Site, which is created first of course.

Ok, now understand why I get problems when directly subclassing Site. I 
think that I only have to change very few things to make it run using 
virtual hosts.

>> The main problem is that I parse and analyze the url all by myself. 
>> Actually I do not care if there are additional path elements before. 
>> But when overriding the message #answerTo: of the Site-class it does 
>> not work! Do I have to change something else?
>
> You can make your own Url resolution if you want in your Wiki 
> resource. That way I did my new AIDA/Web, which also have its own url 
> resolution. Overriding answerTo:  should work, just be carefull to 
> return a proper HTTPResponse.

Exactly, so this part is working. I only have to compose it with an 
instance of Site now, to make it usable with virtual-hosts ;-)

Cheers
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Wed Mar 19 23:52:54 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 23:52:54 +0100
Subject: Image Storage
Message-ID: <855D6476-5A5D-11D7-9AE4-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



Hi,

I have added a new type of storage that is much faster than the one 
using SIXX. Of course the SIXX serialization could be optimized and it 
could be done in a background thread, but still it seems to be not very 
efficient.

It is amazing: Saving the image costs less than a second on my machine, 
even with a wiki that has got thousands of pages and several folders 
with copies of my presentation.

To enable the new storage execute the following code

	server storage: ImageStorage new.

and a file called "smallwiki.im" in your image-directory will be 
generated every half an hour if something changed. Of course the 
storage-type might be swapped on the fly (hot-swap).

Alexander told me that the XML-file of the running server is already 
over 1 MB. And I have my concerns that the VW XML-parser is able to 
handle very such large files to read it in. Therefore I think dumping 
the image scales far better and is more save, as it simpler and has 
been working for years now.

Cheers
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From ducasse at iam.unibe.ch  Thu Mar 20 09:10:37 2003
From: ducasse at iam.unibe.ch (Stephane Ducasse)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 09:10:37 +0100
Subject: Image Storage
In-Reply-To: <855D6476-5A5D-11D7-9AE4-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <6E9D4ED7-5AAB-11D7-A2F4-000393B2AA24@iam.unibe.ch>



That was also my impression so we will see how to have other saving 
mechanisms

stef


On Wednesday, March 19, 2003, at 11:52 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have added a new type of storage that is much faster than the one 
> using SIXX. Of course the SIXX serialization could be optimized and it 
> could be done in a background thread, but still it seems to be not 
> very efficient.
>
> It is amazing: Saving the image costs less than a second on my 
> machine, even with a wiki that has got thousands of pages and several 
> folders with copies of my presentation.
>
> To enable the new storage execute the following code
>
> 	server storage: ImageStorage new.
>
> and a file called "smallwiki.im" in your image-directory will be 
> generated every half an hour if something changed. Of course the 
> storage-type might be swapped on the fly (hot-swap).
>
> Alexander told me that the XML-file of the running server is already 
> over 1 MB. And I have my concerns that the VW XML-parser is able to 
> handle very such large files to read it in. Therefore I think dumping 
> the image scales far better and is more save, as it simpler and has 
> been working for years now.
>
> Cheers
> Lukas
>
> -- 
> Lukas Renggli
> http://renggli.freezope.org
>
>
Prof. Dr. St?phane DUCASSE (ducasse at iam.unibe.ch) 
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/
  "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do 
different? ...  especially if,
  by doing something different, today might not be your last day on 
earth" Calvin&Hobbes

"The best way to predict the future is to invent it..." Alan Kay.

Open Source Smalltalks: www.squeak.org, 
www.gnu.org/software/smalltalk/smalltalk.html
Free books for Universities at 
http://www.esug.org/sponsoring/promotionProgram.html
Free Online Book at www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/FreeBooks.html




From bergel at iam.unibe.ch  Thu Mar 20 12:14:26 2003
From: bergel at iam.unibe.ch (Alexandre Bergel)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 12:14:26 +0100
Subject: Visitor and "Pages Visited Component"
Message-ID: <20030320111426.GY23968@iam.unibe.ch>



[For Lukas and Steph] Last time with Gabriela we have coded together the Page visited component. We get stuck because we put a method such as: 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Page>>accept: aVisitor
	aVisitor acceptPage: self.
	(self template propertyAt: #visitedPages) addPage: self
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

The result was the component reference all the pages of the wiki, even if we display it or not.


I understood why. A page is not only visited by a rendered visitor, by also by VisitorReferences.
So, a code something like works:
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Page>>accept: aVisitor
	aVisitor acceptPage: self.
	(aVisitor isKindOf: VisitorRenderer) ifTrue: [
		(self template propertyAt: #visitedPages) addPage: self]
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Okay, now I have some questions:
1- What is the meaning of VisitorReferences, 
2- What is the meaning of TemplateReferences

The both question are nearly the same, but I do not have so much time to dive in the code.
My guess is it is needed for the saving mechanism...

and the last one:
3- A page should get a reference so the component for being referenced when visited. In the previous code "self template" return the __root__ of the template structure. So, our first idea was to add a property in the root for referencing the component. But, we need to modify such method. And I admit it is not homogenous :-)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
defaultTemplate
	| ans v |
	ans := TemplateRoot
		child: (TemplateContainerRows new
			add: (TemplateStringTitleWiki new);
			add: (TemplateContainerColumns new
				add: (TemplateStructuresPath new);
				add: (TemplateHeatBox new);
				yourself);
			add: (TemplateContainerColumns new
				add: (TemplateContainerRows new
					add: (TemplateActionsCustom new);
					add: (TemplateStructuresReferences new);
					add: (v := TemplateVisitedPages new);
					yourself);
				add: (TemplateContainerRows new
					add: (TemplateStringTitleAction new);
					add: (TemplateStringContent new);
					yourself);
				yourself);
			add: (TemplateStringAbout new);
			yourself).
	ans propertyAt: #visitedPages put: v.   "<=======Here a new line !!!!"
	^ ans
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Lukas, tell me what do you think about this way for letting a page to access a component...
I think it is not bad...

Alexandre



-- 
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.



From bergel at iam.unibe.ch  Thu Mar 20 13:37:04 2003
From: bergel at iam.unibe.ch (Alexandre Bergel)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 13:37:04 +0100
Subject: Visitor and "Pages Visited Component"
In-Reply-To: <20030320111426.GY23968@iam.unibe.ch>
References: <20030320111426.GY23968@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <20030320123704.GA23968@iam.unibe.ch>



Okay sorry.
I am a kind of ashamed by this email. A real newbies mistake.
The correct way is to create a new Visitor inheriting from VisitorRenderer*
In short the responsability of adding a page in the PagesVisitedComponent belongs to the visitor and __not__ to the page, as I first thought.

I will never make a such mistake, I promise :-)

Alexandre


On Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 12:14:26PM +0100, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
> [For Lukas and Steph] Last time with Gabriela we have coded together the Page visited component. We get stuck because we put a method such as: 
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Page>>accept: aVisitor
> 	aVisitor acceptPage: self.
> 	(self template propertyAt: #visitedPages) addPage: self
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> 
> The result was the component reference all the pages of the wiki, even if we display it or not.
> 
> 
> I understood why. A page is not only visited by a rendered visitor, by also by VisitorReferences.
> So, a code something like works:
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Page>>accept: aVisitor
> 	aVisitor acceptPage: self.
> 	(aVisitor isKindOf: VisitorRenderer) ifTrue: [
> 		(self template propertyAt: #visitedPages) addPage: self]
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> 
> Okay, now I have some questions:
> 1- What is the meaning of VisitorReferences, 
> 2- What is the meaning of TemplateReferences
> 
> The both question are nearly the same, but I do not have so much time to dive in the code.
> My guess is it is needed for the saving mechanism...
> 
> and the last one:
> 3- A page should get a reference so the component for being referenced when visited. In the previous code "self template" return the __root__ of the template structure. So, our first idea was to add a property in the root for referencing the component. But, we need to modify such method. And I admit it is not homogenous :-)
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> defaultTemplate
> 	| ans v |
> 	ans := TemplateRoot
> 		child: (TemplateContainerRows new
> 			add: (TemplateStringTitleWiki new);
> 			add: (TemplateContainerColumns new
> 				add: (TemplateStructuresPath new);
> 				add: (TemplateHeatBox new);
> 				yourself);
> 			add: (TemplateContainerColumns new
> 				add: (TemplateContainerRows new
> 					add: (TemplateActionsCustom new);
> 					add: (TemplateStructuresReferences new);
> 					add: (v := TemplateVisitedPages new);
> 					yourself);
> 				add: (TemplateContainerRows new
> 					add: (TemplateStringTitleAction new);
> 					add: (TemplateStringContent new);
> 					yourself);
> 				yourself);
> 			add: (TemplateStringAbout new);
> 			yourself).
> 	ans propertyAt: #visitedPages put: v.   "<=======Here a new line !!!!"
> 	^ ans
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> 
> Lukas, tell me what do you think about this way for letting a page to access a component...
> I think it is not bad...
> 
> Alexandre
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel
> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

-- 
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.



From markus.gaelli at iam.unibe.ch  Thu Mar 20 18:11:28 2003
From: markus.gaelli at iam.unibe.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Markus_G=E4lli?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 18:11:28 +0100
Subject: Visitor and "Pages Visited Component"
In-Reply-To: <20030320123704.GA23968@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <FD29DF9A-5AF6-11D7-8775-0003938AC0F4@iam.unibe.ch>



"Visitor
(...)
Discussion
Is this object oriented design?

At first glance, the Visitor pattern seems contrary to classic 
object-oriented design.

"(...Something how you normally would do it without using the 
visitor-pattern)"

However, there are a couple of downsides to this approach. First, 
nobody wants
to - or does - talk about this in the object-oriented literature, but 
dispersing the draw code
all over the class hierarchy is problematic from a program 
understanding perspective."

Why? Don't I do that all the time?

" (...)
Second, when we distribute the responsibility and implementation  of an
operation involving the graphic element classes to each class, it's 
harder to add a new
operation. Doing so means adding a new method to every Geometric class.
Hence, this solution is better when the set of operations is basically 
static."
  (Design Patterns Smalltalk Companion)

Hey, we have class-extensions.

I remain unconvinced/undecided about the visitor-pattern, is it
another C++-Legacy?

Markus
Am Donnerstag, 20.03.03 um 13:37 Uhr schrieb Alexandre Bergel:

> Okay sorry.
> I am a kind of ashamed by this email. A real newbies mistake.
> The correct way is to create a new Visitor inheriting from 
> VisitorRenderer*
> In short the responsability of adding a page in the 
> PagesVisitedComponent belongs to the visitor and __not__ to the page, 
> as I first thought.
>
> I will never make a such mistake, I promise :-)
>
> Alexandre
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 12:14:26PM +0100, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>> [For Lukas and Steph] Last time with Gabriela we have coded together 
>> the Page visited component. We get stuck because we put a method such 
>> as:
>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>> Page>>accept: aVisitor
>> 	aVisitor acceptPage: self.
>> 	(self template propertyAt: #visitedPages) addPage: self
>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>>
>> The result was the component reference all the pages of the wiki, 
>> even if we display it or not.
>>
>>
>> I understood why. A page is not only visited by a rendered visitor, 
>> by also by VisitorReferences.
>> So, a code something like works:
>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>> Page>>accept: aVisitor
>> 	aVisitor acceptPage: self.
>> 	(aVisitor isKindOf: VisitorRenderer) ifTrue: [
>> 		(self template propertyAt: #visitedPages) addPage: self]
>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>>
>> Okay, now I have some questions:
>> 1- What is the meaning of VisitorReferences,
>> 2- What is the meaning of TemplateReferences
>>
>> The both question are nearly the same, but I do not have so much time 
>> to dive in the code.
>> My guess is it is needed for the saving mechanism...
>>
>> and the last one:
>> 3- A page should get a reference so the component for being 
>> referenced when visited. In the previous code "self template" return 
>> the __root__ of the template structure. So, our first idea was to add 
>> a property in the root for referencing the component. But, we need to 
>> modify such method. And I admit it is not homogenous :-)
>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>> defaultTemplate
>> 	| ans v |
>> 	ans := TemplateRoot
>> 		child: (TemplateContainerRows new
>> 			add: (TemplateStringTitleWiki new);
>> 			add: (TemplateContainerColumns new
>> 				add: (TemplateStructuresPath new);
>> 				add: (TemplateHeatBox new);
>> 				yourself);
>> 			add: (TemplateContainerColumns new
>> 				add: (TemplateContainerRows new
>> 					add: (TemplateActionsCustom new);
>> 					add: (TemplateStructuresReferences new);
>> 					add: (v := TemplateVisitedPages new);
>> 					yourself);
>> 				add: (TemplateContainerRows new
>> 					add: (TemplateStringTitleAction new);
>> 					add: (TemplateStringContent new);
>> 					yourself);
>> 				yourself);
>> 			add: (TemplateStringAbout new);
>> 			yourself).
>> 	ans propertyAt: #visitedPages put: v.   "<=======Here a new line 
>> !!!!"
>> 	^ ans
>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>>
>> Lukas, tell me what do you think about this way for letting a page to 
>> access a component...
>> I think it is not bad...
>>
>> Alexandre
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel
>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>
> -- 
> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel
> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>



From roel.wuyts at iam.unibe.ch  Thu Mar 20 18:21:14 2003
From: roel.wuyts at iam.unibe.ch (Roel Wuyts)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 18:21:14 +0100
Subject: Visitor and "Pages Visited Component"
In-Reply-To: <FD29DF9A-5AF6-11D7-8775-0003938AC0F4@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <5A1099DA-5AF8-11D7-ADEC-003065CC9F36@iam.unibe.ch>



We can discuss hours about this, of course :-)

But one of the things is that the visitor approach is more resistant to 
changes in the elements hierarchy than directly extending the elements 
hierarchy with methods.

Suppose very simple hierarchy (hey, this is ascii :-) ):
         A
     /        \
B          C

We want to have operations on these elements (say, print and display).
So we have two options:
(1) add methods print and display directly on each of these classes 
(put them in a different package, of course)
(2) make visitors.

Now, suppose that in version two of the simple example I get rid of 
class C. Then I cannot load the packages anymore (you will get an 
unloadable method because C does not exist anymore). But your visitor 
will have no problems. It will just have an obsolete method that is not 
called anymore.

And then there is of course the fact that you can swap visitors at 
runtime (see StarBrowser or SmallWiki), and you cannot do that without 
resorting to meta-programming tricks (which is against not resistant 
against change) in the non-visitor approach.

But I agree that you should think before you do :-)

On Thursday, March 20, 2003, at 06:11 PM, Markus G?lli wrote:

> "Visitor
> (...)
> Discussion
> Is this object oriented design?
>
> At first glance, the Visitor pattern seems contrary to classic 
> object-oriented design.
>
> "(...Something how you normally would do it without using the 
> visitor-pattern)"
>
> However, there are a couple of downsides to this approach. First, 
> nobody wants
> to - or does - talk about this in the object-oriented literature, but 
> dispersing the draw code
> all over the class hierarchy is problematic from a program 
> understanding perspective."
>
> Why? Don't I do that all the time?
>
> " (...)
> Second, when we distribute the responsibility and implementation  of an
> operation involving the graphic element classes to each class, it's 
> harder to add a new
> operation. Doing so means adding a new method to every Geometric class.
> Hence, this solution is better when the set of operations is basically 
> static."
>  (Design Patterns Smalltalk Companion)
>
> Hey, we have class-extensions.
>
> I remain unconvinced/undecided about the visitor-pattern, is it
> another C++-Legacy?
>
> Markus
> Am Donnerstag, 20.03.03 um 13:37 Uhr schrieb Alexandre Bergel:
>
>> Okay sorry.
>> I am a kind of ashamed by this email. A real newbies mistake.
>> The correct way is to create a new Visitor inheriting from 
>> VisitorRenderer*
>> In short the responsability of adding a page in the 
>> PagesVisitedComponent belongs to the visitor and __not__ to the page, 
>> as I first thought.
>>
>> I will never make a such mistake, I promise :-)
>>
>> Alexandre
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 12:14:26PM +0100, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>> [For Lukas and Steph] Last time with Gabriela we have coded together 
>>> the Page visited component. We get stuck because we put a method 
>>> such as:
>>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>>> Page>>accept: aVisitor
>>> 	aVisitor acceptPage: self.
>>> 	(self template propertyAt: #visitedPages) addPage: self
>>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>>>
>>> The result was the component reference all the pages of the wiki, 
>>> even if we display it or not.
>>>
>>>
>>> I understood why. A page is not only visited by a rendered visitor, 
>>> by also by VisitorReferences.
>>> So, a code something like works:
>>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>>> Page>>accept: aVisitor
>>> 	aVisitor acceptPage: self.
>>> 	(aVisitor isKindOf: VisitorRenderer) ifTrue: [
>>> 		(self template propertyAt: #visitedPages) addPage: self]
>>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>>>
>>> Okay, now I have some questions:
>>> 1- What is the meaning of VisitorReferences,
>>> 2- What is the meaning of TemplateReferences
>>>
>>> The both question are nearly the same, but I do not have so much 
>>> time to dive in the code.
>>> My guess is it is needed for the saving mechanism...
>>>
>>> and the last one:
>>> 3- A page should get a reference so the component for being 
>>> referenced when visited. In the previous code "self template" return 
>>> the __root__ of the template structure. So, our first idea was to 
>>> add a property in the root for referencing the component. But, we 
>>> need to modify such method. And I admit it is not homogenous :-)
>>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>>> defaultTemplate
>>> 	| ans v |
>>> 	ans := TemplateRoot
>>> 		child: (TemplateContainerRows new
>>> 			add: (TemplateStringTitleWiki new);
>>> 			add: (TemplateContainerColumns new
>>> 				add: (TemplateStructuresPath new);
>>> 				add: (TemplateHeatBox new);
>>> 				yourself);
>>> 			add: (TemplateContainerColumns new
>>> 				add: (TemplateContainerRows new
>>> 					add: (TemplateActionsCustom new);
>>> 					add: (TemplateStructuresReferences new);
>>> 					add: (v := TemplateVisitedPages new);
>>> 					yourself);
>>> 				add: (TemplateContainerRows new
>>> 					add: (TemplateStringTitleAction new);
>>> 					add: (TemplateStringContent new);
>>> 					yourself);
>>> 				yourself);
>>> 			add: (TemplateStringAbout new);
>>> 			yourself).
>>> 	ans propertyAt: #visitedPages put: v.   "<=======Here a new line 
>>> !!!!"
>>> 	^ ans
>>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>>>
>>> Lukas, tell me what do you think about this way for letting a page 
>>> to access a component...
>>> I think it is not bad...
>>>
>>> Alexandre
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel
>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>
>> -- 
>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel
>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>
>
>
Roel Wuyts                                                   Software 
Composition Group
roel.wuyts at iam.unibe.ch                       University of Bern, 
Switzerland
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~wuyts/
Board Member of the European Smalltalk User Group: www.esug.org




From ducasse at iam.unibe.ch  Thu Mar 20 19:52:40 2003
From: ducasse at iam.unibe.ch (Stephane Ducasse)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:52:40 +0100
Subject: Visitor and "Pages Visited Component"
In-Reply-To: <FD29DF9A-5AF6-11D7-8775-0003938AC0F4@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <20012266-5B05-11D7-A2F4-000393B2AA24@iam.unibe.ch>



>  (Design Patterns Smalltalk Companion)

Definitively a must read and re read and re re read.

For the visitor Gamma said that this is not OO so this should be true.
If Good says so...

Stef

I thought that design was about tradeoffs



Prof. Dr. St?phane DUCASSE (ducasse at iam.unibe.ch) 
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/
  "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do 
different? ...  especially if,
  by doing something different, today might not be your last day on 
earth" Calvin&Hobbes

"The best way to predict the future is to invent it..." Alan Kay.

Open Source Smalltalks: www.squeak.org, 
www.gnu.org/software/smalltalk/smalltalk.html
Free books for Universities at 
http://www.esug.org/sponsoring/promotionProgram.html
Free Online Book at www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/FreeBooks.html




From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Thu Mar 20 22:45:27 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 22:45:27 +0100
Subject: Visitor and "Pages Visited Component"
In-Reply-To: <20012266-5B05-11D7-A2F4-000393B2AA24@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <435E7F99-5B1D-11D7-9AE4-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



>>  (Design Patterns Smalltalk Companion)
>
> Definitively a must read and re read and re re read.
>
> For the visitor Gamma said that this is not OO so this should be true.
> If Good says so...

So, that means that double-dispatch is not OO too?

Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From gaelli at emergent.de  Thu Mar 20 22:53:55 2003
From: gaelli at emergent.de (Markus Gaelli)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 22:53:55 +0100
Subject: Visitor and "Pages Visited Component"
In-Reply-To: <435E7F99-5B1D-11D7-9AE4-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <7265C423-5B1E-11D7-B7DB-0003938AC0F4@emergent.de>



No, they don't say that, they just say to be carefully.

I think, it's just that if the verb is responsible for the action
and not the noun, and the "noun"-object stays stupid it might be
a bad smell...

The main question remains, if you are assigning responsibilities
in a right and balanced way.

Personally I haven't understood, why Visitors could not be seen
as Strategies (at least when you want to apply several 
printing/rendering...
strategies, literally) and I am looking forward to read a paper/article 
(in JOOP?)
Doru told me about, which compares Visitor with Strategy

Cheers

Markus


Am Donnerstag, 20.03.03 um 22:45 Uhr schrieb Lukas Renggli:

>  that double-dispatch is not OO too?
>
> Lukas
>
> -- 



From roel.wuyts at iam.unibe.ch  Fri Mar 21 09:20:33 2003
From: roel.wuyts at iam.unibe.ch (Roel Wuyts)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 09:20:33 +0100
Subject: Visitor and "Pages Visited Component"
In-Reply-To: <7265C423-5B1E-11D7-B7DB-0003938AC0F4@emergent.de>
Message-ID: <FCB0E8FE-5B75-11D7-ADEC-003065CC9F36@iam.unibe.ch>



[Meta-remark: this whole discussion is about concerns, and properly 
separating these concerns. For example, in your previous question on 
why having a visitor, the overall reason is that there is two concerns: 
one is performing an action on elements in a tree (disregarding the 
actual form of the tree), another is the tree itself (whatever your 
tree needs to do). If you have these two clear concerns, separate them. 
This also answers your question regarding'why should I always use a 
visitor'. Separation of concerns gives you an answer: if the only thing 
your tree needs to do is print, then it might not be worth it (you then 
have only one concern). But then let's not forget that it will be 
difficult to add another action later on (like displaying). There is no 
prefab all-good solution.

For example, in the case of the StarBrowser and SmallWiki we use a 
visitor because we use the possibility to switch visitors all the time. 
The Classifications tree has only the behaviour to do traversals and 
maintain parent links etc. In the case of Soul, for example, it is more 
interesting because you see the roles in practice. The problem is that 
your parse tree sometimes needs to do different things, but you have to 
decompose it along one direction. In Soul, we decided that it was the 
main responsibility to implement the unification protocol directly on 
the parse tree: unification is stable (it does not change much, apart 
from possible bugfixes), and we need it a lot so it should be fast. So 
the Soul parse tree implements the unification on the tree, because it 
is logically what the tree needs to do (what we decided that it should 
do). However, then we have some other operations that we want to do 
with this tree, like pretty printing. For these things we used a 
visitor. ]

  What you factor out with the visitor is the traversal behaviour. So 
take the example from the previous mail (with those three classes A, B 
and C and two visitors, one for printing and one for displaying.

The printing visitor will typically implement two methods (yes, only 
two, not three): doB: and doC:. Likewise for the display visitor.
Now comes a key point: the visitor class itself will implement the 
behaviour that in order to process the A node in this hierarchy, the B 
and C node has to be processed. So this behaviour (the traversal) can 
be shared amongst all visitors. In this small hierarchy it is debatable 
whether this is useful, but in bigger hierarchies it becomes noticeable.

Note that you could use a Strategy to have different tree-walking 
strategies in this visitor (a depth-first, a breadth-first, etc.) :-)



On Thursday, March 20, 2003, at 10:53 PM, Markus Gaelli wrote:

> No, they don't say that, they just say to be carefully.
>
> I think, it's just that if the verb is responsible for the action
> and not the noun, and the "noun"-object stays stupid it might be
> a bad smell...
>
> The main question remains, if you are assigning responsibilities
> in a right and balanced way.
>
> Personally I haven't understood, why Visitors could not be seen
> as Strategies (at least when you want to apply several 
> printing/rendering...
> strategies, literally) and I am looking forward to read a 
> paper/article (in JOOP?)
> Doru told me about, which compares Visitor with Strategy
>
> Cheers
>
> Markus
>
>
> Am Donnerstag, 20.03.03 um 22:45 Uhr schrieb Lukas Renggli:
>
>>  that double-dispatch is not OO too?
>>
>> Lukas
>>
>> -- 
>
>
Roel Wuyts                                                   Software 
Composition Group
roel.wuyts at iam.unibe.ch                       University of Bern, 
Switzerland
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~wuyts/
Board Member of the European Smalltalk User Group: www.esug.org



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Fri Mar 21 11:33:02 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 11:33:02 +0100
Subject: Process Viewer
Message-ID: <7E4C330C-5B88-11D7-9AE4-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



Might I just throw a silly question in-between the visitor discussion?

How do I get the process-viewer in VW. I know that there must be 
somewhere such a tool, but I don't know what parcel to load or where to 
look in the image.

Right now I am working on a extended storage model that runs in a 
background thread and should be much faster than the current 
implementation and should not interfere with people browsing the 
web-site the same time. It is a bit boring using "Process allInstances 
inspect" all the time.

Thanks
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Tue Mar 25 22:33:19 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 22:33:19 +0100
Subject: Tonight's Modification
Message-ID: <65CA2CDC-5F09-11D7-9B2F-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



- The class Chapter class has been renamed to Folder to give a more 
descriptive name. As far as I could test, this should have no big 
impact on running systems, but old SIXX dumps won't be loadable anymore.

- The rendering of a folder is slightly different now: the title is 
displayed as "Contents of aFolderTitle" instead of "aFolderTitle", to 
make it clear in what context you are.

- A page describing the supported wiki-syntax is now accessible from 
the edit-page action. The text has been basically copied from SWiki, it 
should be probably rewritten as it is not a very user-friendly document.

- The security model has been attached to all the actions. By default 
the anonymous user is assigned to the request. It has almost all the 
permissions except for the history-commands, the removal-of-structures 
and the execution of client-side code.

- The security system should even work with other users and roles, you 
just have to define them. It should be also possible to modify the 
roles according to the chapter the request is been processed on. I 
haven't tried (due to lack of time) any of the features described in 
that paragraph (but there are a lot of tests, working with the model), 
so be careful: bugs to be expected!

Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From bergel at iam.unibe.ch  Wed Mar 26 10:28:56 2003
From: bergel at iam.unibe.ch (Alexandre Bergel)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 10:28:56 +0100
Subject: Smallwiki updated
Message-ID: <20030326092856.GH16292@iam.unibe.ch>



... and running, still on: kilana:9090

Everything is saved

Alexandre

-- 
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.



From ducasse at iam.unibe.ch  Wed Mar 26 10:39:19 2003
From: ducasse at iam.unibe.ch (Stephane Ducasse)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 10:39:19 +0100
Subject: Smallwiki updated
In-Reply-To: <20030326092856.GH16292@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <D19F56AC-5F6E-11D7-9E12-000393B2AA24@iam.unibe.ch>



Do yo mean


	http://kilana.unibe.ch:9090/
	
because this is not working for me ;((((((((((((((((((((



On Wednesday, March 26, 2003, at 10:28 AM, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

> kilana:9090
Prof. Dr. St?phane DUCASSE
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/
  "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do 
different? ...  especially if,
  by doing something different, today might not be your last day on 
earth" Calvin&Hobbes

"The best way to predict the future is to invent it..." Alan Kay.

Open Source Smalltalks: http://www.squeak.org, 
http://www.gnu.org/software/smalltalk/smalltalk.html
Free books for Universities at 
http://www.esug.org/sponsoring/promotionProgram.html
Free Online Book at 
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/WebPages/FreeBooks.html




From ducasse at iam.unibe.ch  Wed Mar 26 11:31:33 2003
From: ducasse at iam.unibe.ch (Stephane Ducasse)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 11:31:33 +0100
Subject: PAssword
Message-ID: <1D3AA984-5F76-11D7-9E12-000393B2AA24@iam.unibe.ch>



Hi

what is the password to remove page



Prof. Dr. St?phane DUCASSE
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/
  "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do 
different? ...  especially if,
  by doing something different, today might not be your last day on 
earth" Calvin&Hobbes

"The best way to predict the future is to invent it..." Alan Kay.

Open Source Smalltalks: http://www.squeak.org, 
http://www.gnu.org/software/smalltalk/smalltalk.html
Free books for Universities at 
http://www.esug.org/sponsoring/promotionProgram.html
Free Online Book at 
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/WebPages/FreeBooks.html



From ducasse at iam.unibe.ch  Wed Mar 26 11:46:23 2003
From: ducasse at iam.unibe.ch (Stephane Ducasse)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 11:46:23 +0100
Subject: Some Questions
Message-ID: <300153D0-5F78-11D7-9E12-000393B2AA24@iam.unibe.ch>



Hi

I discovered that I have to use the full path to reference a page.
For example *How To/Add an Action* because How to is a folder.

Let us that we should be really careful can be really disruptive as my 
experience showed it.

Now what is the semantics of remove?	
if I point to a page A from page B
then A got removed from a folder C

do I still see the page B I hope.
I think that remove is not a good name (is it remove the link or delete 
the page).

Then what is the password to remove page?

Finally we see quickly that we will need move page from there to there 
because I wanted to reorganise the
page alex did and I put the mess.






Prof. Dr. St?phane DUCASSE
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/
  "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do 
different? ...  especially if,
  by doing something different, today might not be your last day on 
earth" Calvin&Hobbes

"The best way to predict the future is to invent it..." Alan Kay.

Open Source Smalltalks: http://www.squeak.org, 
http://www.gnu.org/software/smalltalk/smalltalk.html
Free books for Universities at 
http://www.esug.org/sponsoring/promotionProgram.html
Free Online Book at 
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/WebPages/FreeBooks.html



From ducasse at iam.unibe.ch  Wed Mar 26 12:09:41 2003
From: ducasse at iam.unibe.ch (Stephane Ducasse)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 12:09:41 +0100
Subject: A discussion about folders and...
Message-ID: <7174D04B-5F7B-11D7-9E12-000393B2AA24@iam.unibe.ch>



Hi

I think that we will have to have a discussion about the use of folder 
because now
when I create a Wiki the first page is a list of links....

So tell me when we can discuss


Stef
Prof. Dr. St?phane DUCASSE
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/
  "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do 
different? ...  especially if,
  by doing something different, today might not be your last day on 
earth" Calvin&Hobbes

"The best way to predict the future is to invent it..." Alan Kay.

Open Source Smalltalks: http://www.squeak.org, 
http://www.gnu.org/software/smalltalk/smalltalk.html
Free books for Universities at 
http://www.esug.org/sponsoring/promotionProgram.html
Free Online Book at 
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/WebPages/FreeBooks.html



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Wed Mar 26 12:55:08 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 12:55:08 +0100
Subject: PAssword
In-Reply-To: <1D3AA984-5F76-11D7-9E12-000393B2AA24@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <CA4C51EE-5F81-11D7-AD8C-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



> what is the password to remove page

There is no admin-user created by default. So currently the removing 
and history functionality is not accessible anymore. The same is for 
the smalltalk client-side code.

Alex, try the following code to add an admin having all the rights. I 
know that this implementation is not very clean and I don't even know 
if it works. Just try to run the following code in your workspace to 
add the admin. Probably you get some debugger, as I write this out of 
my mind:

	adminrole := Role name: 'Administrators'.
	Structure allStructures do: [ :class |
		adminrole addPermission: class permissionAdd.
		adminrole addPermission: class permissionEdit.
		adminrole addPermission: class permissionHistory.
		adminrole addPermission: class permissionRemove.
		adminrole addPermission: class permissionView. ].

	admin := User username: 'admin' password: 'password'.
	admin addRole: adminrole.

	server addUser: admin.
	
HTH
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Wed Mar 26 13:04:03 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 13:04:03 +0100
Subject: Some Questions
In-Reply-To: <300153D0-5F78-11D7-9E12-000393B2AA24@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <09835497-5F83-11D7-AD8C-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



> I discovered that I have to use the full path to reference a page.
> For example *How To/Add an Action* because How to is a folder.
>
> Let us that we should be really careful can be really disruptive as my 
> experience showed it.

No you don't have. I tried to keep the syntax as close as possible to 
SWiki. To reference a page in the same folder you simply have to give 
the title and should work perfectly.

See the comments of the message Structure>>resolveTo: to understand how 
the full resolving process is working or have a look at the tests:

	"Start the resolving-process at the receiver with the 
resolving-algorithm depending
	on the count of identifiers in aPathString:

		1. if the first character of the path is a seperator
			- the lookup is started in the root-node and processed downwards

		2. if the first character is not a seperator and ...
			2.1 an empty path is given
				- the receiver is returned
			2.1 a path with one or more entries is given
				- a lookup is started in the parent of the receiver

	The first matching structure is returned or nil if no appropriate item 
could be located
	in the tree."

> Now what is the semantics of remove?	
> if I point to a page A from page B
> then A got removed from a folder C
> do I still see the page B I hope.

Yes sure! If A is a page or a resource nothing else will be removed. If 
A is a folder then all its children will also be removed.

> I think that remove is not a good name (is it remove the link or 
> delete the page).

We might change that easily.

> Then what is the password to remove page?

See my previous e-mail.

> Finally we see quickly that we will need move page from there to there 
> because I wanted to reorganise the page alex did and I put the mess.

That is currently not possible from the web, only very basic stuff is 
supported. But I think there is a project for the ST lecutre to create 
a powerfull management interface allowing move-, copy-, ... operations 
like you have in Explorer (Windows), Finder (OS X) or Midnight 
Commander (Unix).

Of course you might easily that from transcript using the inspector ;-)

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Wed Mar 26 13:20:35 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 13:20:35 +0100
Subject: A discussion about folders and...
In-Reply-To: <7174D04B-5F7B-11D7-9E12-000393B2AA24@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <58F03062-5F85-11D7-AD8C-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



> I think that we will have to have a discussion about the use of folder 
> because now
> when I create a Wiki the first page is a list of links....

Exactly, but I changed the title to "Contents of ..." to make it clear 
that this is a folder. I think this is more or less the same as we have 
in SWiki.

I understand the concerns of you and Markus, as you like to have 
something behaving exactly like SWiki. But I want to have something 
that is much more powerful.

As admin you might create folders and add a first page to each of them. 
Then you disallow creating folders for users and just hand them the url 
to the first page you created. They will have *exactly* the same 
feeling as in SWiki or WW and they don't have to know anything about 
the internals. I only expect admins to know working with a (unix-, 
windows-, ...) filesystem.

> So tell me when we can discuss

I don't know when, I am really very busy right now! Every day I get new 
exercises to be handed in the next week and I should also prepare the 
presentation for Friday. I had no time to do anything for the 
presentation yet.

If you think it is very important and we should discuss immediately I 
could probably pop-in this evening just after my lectures, but I don't 
know yet when these will be finished.

Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From markus.gaelli at iam.unibe.ch  Wed Mar 26 14:02:14 2003
From: markus.gaelli at iam.unibe.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Markus_G=E4lli?=)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 14:02:14 +0100
Subject: A discussion about folders and...
In-Reply-To: <58F03062-5F85-11D7-AD8C-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <2A61569A-5F8B-11D7-AFC1-0003938AC0F4@iam.unibe.ch>




Am Mittwoch, 26.03.03 um 13:20 Uhr schrieb Lukas Renggli:

>> I think that we will have to have a discussion about the use of 
>> folder because now
>> when I create a Wiki the first page is a list of links....
>
> Exactly, but I changed the title to "Contents of ..." to make it clear 
> that this is a folder. I think this is more or less the same as we 
> have in SWiki.
>
> I understand the concerns of you and Markus, as you like to have 
> something behaving exactly like SWiki. But I want to have something 
> that is much more powerful.
As I said yesterday, no problem with that, it is only that I don't want 
to be confronted with more complexity,
with which I, as a "normal" user, cannot do anything yet, because it is 
not implemented yet.

I was not aware of already existing authorization-stuff, which is 
available for then "end-SmallWiki-user",
if he has an admin-role.
Me, taking a bit the role of a product-manager here, just want to make 
sure, that we sell our product...:-)
That means, that everything, which could be seen by an end-user, should 
also make some sense to him,
because he can literally "touch" it.

So I guess it would help me to know
- all the responsibilities of a chapter/folder, which I could use as an 
admin or normal user,
	(even if the UI has to be created yet)
- why I want/need the tree-metaphor (explorer) in my graph-metaphor 
(web).

Cheers,

Markus
>
> As admin you might create folders and add a first page to each of 
> them. Then you disallow creating folders for users and just hand them 
> the url to the first page you created. They will have *exactly* the 
> same feeling as in SWiki or WW and they don't have to know anything 
> about the internals. I only expect admins to know working with a 
> (unix-, windows-, ...) filesystem.
>
>> So tell me when we can discuss
>
> I don't know when, I am really very busy right now! Every day I get 
> new exercises to be handed in the next week and I should also prepare 
> the presentation for Friday. I had no time to do anything for the 
> presentation yet.
>
> If you think it is very important and we should discuss immediately I 
> could probably pop-in this evening just after my lectures, but I don't 
> know yet when these will be finished.
>
> Lukas
>
> -- 
> Lukas Renggli
> http://renggli.freezope.org
>



From bergel at iam.unibe.ch  Fri Mar 28 20:17:37 2003
From: bergel at iam.unibe.ch (Alexandre Bergel)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 20:17:37 +0100
Subject: Ready-to-use release available
Message-ID: <20030328191737.GJ779@iam.unibe.ch>



Hello Hannes!

You can download and try smallwiki by fetching this very big files (about 30Mo):
www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel/smallwiki.tgz

I made a small script which run only under linux and solaris, but you can easily make it running on other OS.

In short:
under linux/solaris just type: run 8080
under windows: visual -nologo image/headlessSmallwiki.im -smallwiki port8080 save
it will start smallwiki on the port 8080

there is a saving mechanism, but my script doesn't handle it yet.
the complete image is saved each hour under snapshot_smallwiki.im (I do not remember exactly the name)

But do not forget this is only for testing...

Cheers,
Alexandre

-- 
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Fri Mar 28 20:29:15 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 20:29:15 +0100
Subject: Changes Today & StORE Problem
Message-ID: <8FBBD067-6153-11D7-9AD0-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



Hi everybody

I did several changes to SmallWiki today:

- When you create a new wiki there are now a few pages added and there 
will be the nice renderer selected. The pages are not very useful yet, 
but that will change in the future.

- There is now also a default administrator initialized when creating a 
new wiki with the username 'admin' and password 'smallwiki'. For system 
running in public this should be changed.

- I have created a registration mechanism for actions and permission on 
the Structure class, that is now much cleaner than the first approach. 
Implementing that, I experienced something really nasty about StORE/VW: 
It does not call the initialize message on classes that do not 
implement initialize, but it should as its superclass does understand 
initialize. :-(

- There is now also a special permission for the Smalltallk client side 
code. This permission is checked in the wiki-parser: everybody is able 
to see the result of such code evaluation, but only admins might modify 
and save such a page.

- I also cleaned the code slightly, extended some tests and made them 
run successful again.

The problem with StORE is the following:

- I want to move the message Server>>defaultPort to Server 
class>>defaultPort. It works fine in the image, but when I publish and 
reload everything into a new image, the message is again in 
Server>>defaultPort. I already tried about 100 times, but it does not 
get it. Roel could you help?

Cheers
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Fri Mar 28 21:36:02 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:36:02 +0100
Subject: Changes Today & StORE Problem
In-Reply-To: <8A95F460-6158-11D7-B8D4-000393B2AA24@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <E41EAC58-615C-11D7-9AD0-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>



>> The problem with StORE is the following:
>>
>> - I want to move the message Server>>defaultPort to Server 
>> class>>defaultPort. It works fine in the image, but when I publish 
>> and reload everything into a new image, the message is again in 
>> Server>>defaultPort. I already tried about 100 times, but it does not 
>> get it. Roel could you help?
>
> Roel is on holiday. for another week now. The problem you are 
> describing is really strange. I do not know how to help you. Are you 
> sure that you publish and reload from the same store?

Indeed, that is a good question: But I checked my connection strings 
twice and this is definitely not the problem.

It just looks like I discovered a bug in StORE. The following process 
finally did it:

	1. delete Server>>defaultPort
	2. publish
	3. add Server class>>defaultPort
	4. publish

I will publish the new versions on ST-StORE, as soon as it is known to 
be working well.

Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org



From ducasse at iam.unibe.ch  Sat Mar 29 09:13:46 2003
From: ducasse at iam.unibe.ch (Stephane Ducasse)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 09:13:46 +0100
Subject: WikiPad
Message-ID: <5CF539C8-61BE-11D7-A946-000393B2AA24@iam.unibe.ch>



http://flyingmeat.com/voodoopad.html
VoodooPad 1.0 is a Mac OS X notepad modeled after the WikiWikiWeb 
concept, with links between pages as well as links to resources outside 
the notepad. It accepts both notes and urls, and automatically links 
folders, applications, and URLs that are dragged into it. It supports 
Services and Inkwell and can also export to HTML or to an iPod. 
VoodooPad is $10 for Mac OS X.


Prof. Dr. St?phane DUCASSE
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/
  "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do 
different? ...  especially if,
  by doing something different, today might not be your last day on 
earth" Calvin&Hobbes

"The best way to predict the future is to invent it..." Alan Kay.

Open Source Smalltalks: http://www.squeak.org, 
http://www.gnu.org/software/smalltalk/smalltalk.html
Free books for Universities at 
http://www.esug.org/sponsoring/promotionProgram.html
Free Online Book at 
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/WebPages/FreeBooks.html



From umejava at mars.dti.ne.jp  Thu Mar  6 08:30:43 2003
From: umejava at mars.dti.ne.jp (Masashi Umezawa)
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 16:30:43 +0900
Subject: [BUG] VW-SIXX and Namespaces
References: <0A20796B-4F19-11D7-B4E4-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <004f01c2e3b2$acb879d0$0200a8c0@qwerty>

Hi Lukas,

> I am still struggling around with SIXX to store my wiki-data. Sometimes
> there are strange exceptions popping up, when loading from a stream,
> but I think that I could identify the problem finally:
>
> When streaming-out an object, SIXX does save the name
> of the class, but not the namespace where this class
> was defined in. When later loading, it does sometimes
> take the wrong class to instantiate.

Oh... Sorry. I had noticed that there would be some problems handling
namespaced instances in SIXX. But I had no time to fix it and forgot.

> I think this issue should be quite easy to fix, because there is just
> another attribute called 'sixx.environment' needed for each instance.
> Other Smalltalk implementation, that do not have namespace could simply
> ignore it and SIXX would be still dialect independent.

Yes. Actually it is easy to fix. I've now finished the beta namespace
support.
Please try using the attached parcel. It seems to be working in both VW and
Squeak images.

Now SIXX has an option to select using namespace. To enable namespace
support,  do it once "SixxSetting useEnvironment: true".

Here is an example:

| text1 text2 array |
SixxSetting useEnvironment: true. "just making sure"

text1 := XML.Text text: 'this is test'.
text2 := Core.Text fromString:  'this is test too'.
array := Array with: text1 with: text2.
sixxString := array sixxString.
sixxString inspect.
(Object readSixxFrom: sixxString) inspect.

Hoping this helps,
---
[:masashi | ^umezawa]

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From ducasse at iam.unibe.ch  Tue Mar 18 09:57:29 2003
From: ducasse at iam.unibe.ch (Stephane Ducasse)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 09:57:29 +0100
Subject: HELP with Swaazo
Message-ID: <A64885E2-591F-11D7-B599-000393B2AA24@iam.unibe.ch>



Hi janko

As you know now we are building a really really cool wiki on top of 
Swazoo. Now I have doubt that
the problem comes from swazoo but from our admin people. My main 
problem is that I'm null in network
so I cannot help there to know if the port is open or not.

Have you experienced problems with Swazoo not listening well? which 
tests should we run to help you evaluating our problem?

I have based all our lecture on SmallWiki so if SmallWiki does not work 
we are fucked.
The lecture starts next week and I do not know what to do.

Alex will dive into Swazoo to check from where the problem is coming

Stef


Prof. Dr. St?phane DUCASSE (ducasse at iam.unibe.ch) 
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/
  "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do 
different? ...  especially if,
  by doing something different, today might not be your last day on 
earth" Calvin&Hobbes

"The best way to predict the future is to invent it..." Alan Kay.

Open Source Smalltalks: www.squeak.org, 
www.gnu.org/software/smalltalk/smalltalk.html
Free books for Universities at 
http://www.esug.org/sponsoring/promotionProgram.html
Free Online Book at www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/FreeBooks.html



From renggli at student.unibe.ch  Fri Mar  7 19:23:27 2003
From: renggli at student.unibe.ch (Lukas Renggli)
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 19:23:27 +0100
Subject: Patch and enhancements for SmallWiki ?
In-Reply-To: <20030307174608.448761f8.Serge.Stinckwich@info.unicaen.fr>
Message-ID: <E42D93BC-50C9-11D7-A2FC-000393CFE6C8@student.unibe.ch>

> how can i send you patches and enhancements for SmallWiki ?

Great!

Patches: I am not sure how to do this with VisualWorks the best. As I'm 
coming from the Squeak world, I would suggest to use Change-Sets. But 
there are probably better solutions using StORE, I just don't know.

Enhancements: I think that there will be setup a special SmallWiki 
StORE for the Smalltalk lecture. Probably you could publish your 
enhancements there.

> I already try to understand the whole framework.

I've attached a PDF of a small presentation I did about SmallWiki. The 
full demo was done inside the wiki itself, but it is somehow difficult 
to load, because it needs an unofficial alpha-patch to SIXX.

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Cheers
Lukas

-- 
Lukas Renggli
http://renggli.freezope.org