From ckasso at sprynet.com Tue Apr 1 19:19:36 2008 From: ckasso at sprynet.com (ckasso) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 13:19:36 -0400 Subject: [sbe-discussion] some more errata Message-ID: <1207070376.6471.26.camel@creek> Greetings, Page 63 you already feel comfortable with the syntax, you may choose the skip this should read: you already feel comfortable with the syntax, you may choose to skip this Moreover, you cannot change the arity of a method: -- is always a binary message, and there is no way to have a unary form with a different overloading. suggestion: Moreover, you cannot change the arity of a method. A method written to receive a binary message for example, cannot be overloaded to receive a unary form. [nice word: arity] Page 64 In order to help you identify the receiver of a message, we will underline it for you. We will also surround each expression with an ellipse and number expressions starting from the first one that will be sent to help you see the order in which messages are sent. Figure 4.2 represents two message sends, Color yellow and aMorph color: Color yellow, hence there are two ellipses. The expression Color yellow is sent first so its ellipse is numbered 1. There are two receivers: aMorph which receives the message color: ... and Color which receives the message yellow. suggestion: replace the word sent with evaluated Chris From stephane.ducasse at free.fr Tue Apr 1 19:24:31 2008 From: stephane.ducasse at free.fr (stephane ducasse) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 19:24:31 +0200 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: some more errata In-Reply-To: <1207070376.6471.26.camel@creek> References: <1207070376.6471.26.camel@creek> Message-ID: <5A239A80-AA93-48B3-AB89-98B9EED7B4A5@free.fr> Thanks I would prefer not to change sent to evaluated. > > In order to help you identify the receiver of a message, we will > underline > it for you. We will also surround each expression with an ellipse and > number expressions starting from the first one that will be sent to > help you > see the order in which messages are sent. > Figure 4.2 represents two message sends, Color yellow and aMorph > color: > Color yellow, hence there are two ellipses. The expression Color > yellow is sent > first so its ellipse is numbered 1. There are two receivers: aMorph > which > receives the message color: ... and Color which receives the message > yellow. > > suggestion: > > replace the word sent with evaluated > > > > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > Sbe-discussion mailing list > Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion > From damien.pollet at lu.unisi.ch Tue Apr 1 19:27:40 2008 From: damien.pollet at lu.unisi.ch (Damien Pollet) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 18:27:40 +0100 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: some more errata In-Reply-To: <5A239A80-AA93-48B3-AB89-98B9EED7B4A5@free.fr> References: <1207070376.6471.26.camel@creek> <5A239A80-AA93-48B3-AB89-98B9EED7B4A5@free.fr> Message-ID: <3F6E8CC3-744D-4506-AF52-B00742351300@lu.unisi.ch> On 1 avr. 08, at 18:24, stephane ducasse wrote: > I would prefer not to change sent to evaluated. > it makes sense though... evaluating an expression sends messages, but you never send expressions. >> >> In order to help you identify the receiver of a message, we will >> underline >> it for you. We will also surround each expression with an ellipse and >> number expressions starting from the first one that will be sent to >> help you >> see the order in which messages are sent. >> Figure 4.2 represents two message sends, Color yellow and aMorph >> color: >> Color yellow, hence there are two ellipses. The expression Color >> yellow is sent >> first so its ellipse is numbered 1. There are two receivers: aMorph >> which >> receives the message color: ... and Color which receives the message >> yellow. >> >> suggestion: >> >> replace the word sent with evaluated >> >> >> >> Chris >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sbe-discussion mailing list >> Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion >> > > _______________________________________________ > Sbe-discussion mailing list > Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion -- Damien Pollet type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet From oscar at iam.unibe.ch Tue Apr 1 20:48:22 2008 From: oscar at iam.unibe.ch (Oscar Nierstrasz) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 20:48:22 +0200 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: some more errata In-Reply-To: <3F6E8CC3-744D-4506-AF52-B00742351300@lu.unisi.ch> References: <1207070376.6471.26.camel@creek> <5A239A80-AA93-48B3-AB89-98B9EED7B4A5@free.fr> <3F6E8CC3-744D-4506-AF52-B00742351300@lu.unisi.ch> Message-ID: Yes, absolutely this should be fixed. I tried to catch and fix as many instances of "invoking a method" as I could, and correct them to "sending a message", but of course you "evaluate" an expression, you don't "send" it. Terminology is important! - on On Apr 1, 2008, at 19:27, Damien Pollet wrote: > On 1 avr. 08, at 18:24, stephane ducasse wrote: >> I would prefer not to change sent to evaluated. >> > it makes sense though... evaluating an expression sends messages, but > you never send expressions. > >>> >>> In order to help you identify the receiver of a message, we will >>> underline >>> it for you. We will also surround each expression with an ellipse >>> and >>> number expressions starting from the first one that will be sent to >>> help you >>> see the order in which messages are sent. >>> Figure 4.2 represents two message sends, Color yellow and aMorph >>> color: >>> Color yellow, hence there are two ellipses. The expression Color >>> yellow is sent >>> first so its ellipse is numbered 1. There are two receivers: aMorph >>> which >>> receives the message color: ... and Color which receives the message >>> yellow. >>> >>> suggestion: >>> >>> replace the word sent with evaluated >>> >>> >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sbe-discussion mailing list >>> Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sbe-discussion mailing list >> Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion > > -- Damien Pollet > type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sbe-discussion mailing list > Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion From stephane.ducasse at free.fr Tue Apr 1 23:15:01 2008 From: stephane.ducasse at free.fr (stephane ducasse) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 23:15:01 +0200 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: some more errata In-Reply-To: References: <1207070376.6471.26.camel@creek> <5A239A80-AA93-48B3-AB89-98B9EED7B4A5@free.fr> <3F6E8CC3-744D-4506-AF52-B00742351300@lu.unisi.ch> Message-ID: Yes I missed that it was about an expression. You send a message, and **execute** a method associate with the message. I hate the notion of evaluation because after people come and say that smalltlak is slwo because this is evaluated. An Old Lisper On Apr 1, 2008, at 8:48 PM, Oscar Nierstrasz wrote: > > Yes, absolutely this should be fixed. > > I tried to catch and fix as many instances of "invoking a method" as I > could, and correct them to "sending a message", but of course you > "evaluate" an expression, you don't "send" it. > > Terminology is important! > > - on > > On Apr 1, 2008, at 19:27, Damien Pollet wrote: >> On 1 avr. 08, at 18:24, stephane ducasse wrote: >>> I would prefer not to change sent to evaluated. >>> >> it makes sense though... evaluating an expression sends messages, but >> you never send expressions. >> >>>> >>>> In order to help you identify the receiver of a message, we will >>>> underline >>>> it for you. We will also surround each expression with an ellipse >>>> and >>>> number expressions starting from the first one that will be sent to >>>> help you >>>> see the order in which messages are sent. >>>> Figure 4.2 represents two message sends, Color yellow and aMorph >>>> color: >>>> Color yellow, hence there are two ellipses. The expression Color >>>> yellow is sent >>>> first so its ellipse is numbered 1. There are two receivers: aMorph >>>> which >>>> receives the message color: ... and Color which receives the >>>> message >>>> yellow. >>>> >>>> suggestion: >>>> >>>> replace the word sent with evaluated >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sbe-discussion mailing list >>>> Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sbe-discussion mailing list >>> Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion >> >> -- Damien Pollet >> type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sbe-discussion mailing list >> Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > Sbe-discussion mailing list > Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion > From oscar at iam.unibe.ch Wed Apr 2 10:19:59 2008 From: oscar at iam.unibe.ch (Oscar Nierstrasz) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:19:59 +0200 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: some more errata In-Reply-To: <1207070376.6471.26.camel@creek> References: <1207070376.6471.26.camel@creek> Message-ID: Fixed! Thanks, - on On Apr 1, 2008, at 19:19, ckasso wrote: > Greetings, > > Page 63 > > you already feel comfortable with the syntax, you may choose the > skip this > > should read: > > you already feel comfortable with the syntax, you may choose to skip > this > > > Moreover, you cannot change the arity of a method: -- is always > a binary message, and there is no way to have a unary form with a > different > overloading. > > suggestion: > > Moreover, you cannot change the arity of a method. A method > written to > receive a binary message for example, cannot be overloaded to > receive a > unary form. > > [nice word: arity] > > Page 64 > > In order to help you identify the receiver of a message, we will > underline > it for you. We will also surround each expression with an ellipse and > number expressions starting from the first one that will be sent to > help you > see the order in which messages are sent. > Figure 4.2 represents two message sends, Color yellow and aMorph > color: > Color yellow, hence there are two ellipses. The expression Color > yellow is sent > first so its ellipse is numbered 1. There are two receivers: aMorph > which > receives the message color: ... and Color which receives the message > yellow. > > suggestion: > > replace the word sent with evaluated > > > > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > Sbe-discussion mailing list > Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion From ckasso at sprynet.com Wed Apr 2 18:42:02 2008 From: ckasso at sprynet.com (ckasso) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 12:42:02 -0400 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: some more errata In-Reply-To: <1207070376.6471.26.camel@creek> References: <1207070376.6471.26.camel@creek> Message-ID: <1207154522.6425.8.camel@creek> On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 13:19 -0400, ckasso wrote: > Moreover, you cannot change the arity of a method: -- is always > a binary message, and there is no way to have a unary form with a different > overloading. > > suggestion: > > Moreover, you cannot change the arity of a method. A method written to > receive a binary message for example, cannot be overloaded to receive a > unary form. > > [nice word: arity] > I re-read the original text last night and realized that I did not read it correctly the first time. I mistook the minus sign for a dash and so the sentence did not make sense. Chris From black at cs.pdx.edu Wed Apr 2 18:45:13 2008 From: black at cs.pdx.edu (Andrew P. Black) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 09:45:13 -0700 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: some more errata In-Reply-To: <1207154522.6425.8.camel@creek> References: <1207070376.6471.26.camel@creek> <1207154522.6425.8.camel@creek> Message-ID: <92291556-C3C6-4D66-B0C6-D29DD272EB78@cs.pdx.edu> Maybe we should use + as the example instead, to avoid this confusion? Andrew On 2 Apr 2008, at 9:42, ckasso wrote: > I re-read the original text last night and realized that I did not > read > it correctly the first time. I mistook the minus sign for a dash > and so > the sentence did not make sense. Professor Andrew P. Black Department of Computer Science Portland State University +1 503 725 2411 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/pipermail/sbe-discussion/attachments/20080402/9132d5e5/attachment.html From oscar at iam.unibe.ch Wed Apr 2 20:20:17 2008 From: oscar at iam.unibe.ch (Oscar Nierstrasz) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 20:20:17 +0200 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: some more errata In-Reply-To: <92291556-C3C6-4D66-B0C6-D29DD272EB78@cs.pdx.edu> References: <1207070376.6471.26.camel@creek> <1207154522.6425.8.camel@creek> <92291556-C3C6-4D66-B0C6-D29DD272EB78@cs.pdx.edu> Message-ID: <50486F4D-6158-4424-881A-1CE914F82AD3@iam.unibe.ch> I already fixed it by putting quotes around the "-". :-) Moreover, you cannot change the arity of a method. ``\ct{-}'' is always a binary message; there is no way to have a unary ``\ct{-}'' with a different overloading. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Black) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 18:40:13 -0700 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: some more errata In-Reply-To: <50486F4D-6158-4424-881A-1CE914F82AD3@iam.unibe.ch> References: <1207070376.6471.26.camel@creek> <1207154522.6425.8.camel@creek> <92291556-C3C6-4D66-B0C6-D29DD272EB78@cs.pdx.edu> <50486F4D-6158-4424-881A-1CE914F82AD3@iam.unibe.ch> Message-ID: Oscar, I think that this is clear, but inconsistent with the rest of the text, where we don't quote program symbols. Using + would actually work better in this sentence. ? While we are here, the caption to figure 4.1 is inconsistent with the definitions on the same page. It should read "Two message sends, each composed of ..." (I have to say that I don't like that terminology, though. To me, a "message send" is something that happens dynamically, when some expression is executed. I think that's the way that the ANSI standard uses the term. The standard doesn't have a name for the syntactic thing: the syntax just writes optionally followed by , which may be a message send site, or not. Thus, I fail to come up with a better suggestion, and retire hurt) Andrew On 2 Apr 2008, at 11:20, Oscar Nierstrasz wrote: > > I already fixed it by putting quotes around the "-". :-) > > Moreover, you cannot change the arity of a method. ``\ct{-}'' is > always a binary message; there is no way to have a unary ``\ct{-}'' > with a different overloading. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/pipermail/sbe-discussion/attachments/20080403/5f89cc0d/attachment-0002.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pastedGraphic.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 60688 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.iam.unibe.ch/pipermail/sbe-discussion/attachments/20080403/5f89cc0d/pastedGraphic-0001.pdf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/pipermail/sbe-discussion/attachments/20080403/5f89cc0d/attachment-0003.html From oscar at iam.unibe.ch Thu Apr 3 09:49:10 2008 From: oscar at iam.unibe.ch (Oscar Nierstrasz) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 09:49:10 +0200 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: some more errata In-Reply-To: References: <1207070376.6471.26.camel@creek> <1207154522.6425.8.camel@creek> <92291556-C3C6-4D66-B0C6-D29DD272EB78@cs.pdx.edu> <50486F4D-6158-4424-881A-1CE914F82AD3@iam.unibe.ch> Message-ID: <58D7DB00-3674-4AF7-9F8E-0F55AFCC40A8@iam.unibe.ch> Your suggestion sounds nice from a purely typgraphical viewpoint, but why on earth would anyone ever want to add a unary "+"? A unary "-" makes sense. There! I've run rings around you logically! ;-) - on On Apr 3, 2008, at 3:40, Andrew P. Black wrote: > Oscar, > > I think that this is clear, but inconsistent with the rest of the > text, where we don't quote program symbols. Using + would actually > work better in this sentence. > > > > While we are here, the caption to figure 4.1 is inconsistent with > the definitions on the same page. It should read "Two message > sends, each composed of ..." Somehow I don't think that will confuse anyone ... > (I have to say that I don't like that terminology, though. To me, a > "message send" is something that happens dynamically, when some > expression is executed. I think that's the way that the ANSI > standard uses the term. The standard doesn't have a name for the > syntactic thing: the syntax just writes optionally > followed by , which may be a message send site, or not. > Thus, I fail to come up with a better suggestion, and retire hurt) > > Andrew > > > On 2 Apr 2008, at 11:20, Oscar Nierstrasz wrote: >> >> I already fixed it by putting quotes around the "-". :-) >> >> Moreover, you cannot change the arity of a method. ``\ct{-}'' is >> always a binary message; there is no way to have a unary ``\ct{-}'' >> with a different overloading. > > _______________________________________________ > Sbe-discussion mailing list > Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion From black at cs.pdx.edu Thu Apr 3 10:26:20 2008 From: black at cs.pdx.edu (Andrew P. Black) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 01:26:20 -0700 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: some more errata In-Reply-To: <58D7DB00-3674-4AF7-9F8E-0F55AFCC40A8@iam.unibe.ch> References: <1207070376.6471.26.camel@creek> <1207154522.6425.8.camel@creek> <92291556-C3C6-4D66-B0C6-D29DD272EB78@cs.pdx.edu> <50486F4D-6158-4424-881A-1CE914F82AD3@iam.unibe.ch> <58D7DB00-3674-4AF7-9F8E-0F55AFCC40A8@iam.unibe.ch> Message-ID: <1F3AC1E2-3F49-4264-A15B-AD16E2AA96A6@cs.pdx.edu> On 3 Apr 2008, at 0:49, Oscar Nierstrasz wrote: > > Your suggestion sounds nice from a purely typgraphical viewpoint, but > why on earth would anyone ever want to add a unary "+"? A unary "-" > makes sense. > > There! I've run rings around you logically! > A postfix unary + makes a lot of sense, as in regular expressions, charged particles, etc. It also makes sense when applied to arrays, to indicate the sum of all elements. I've actually wanted to do that; it's fun to use a trampoline to make elementwise operators apply to collections, but this arity thing comes back to bite. You are probably thinking of prefix +. Andrew From ckasso at sprynet.com Sun Apr 6 23:08:13 2008 From: ckasso at sprynet.com (ckasso) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2008 17:08:13 -0400 Subject: [sbe-discussion] errata continued Message-ID: <1207516093.8983.0.camel@creek> Greetings, Here are some more typos and suggestions. Page 72 expresed should read expressed Page 73 Figure 4.7: Equivalent messages using parentheses. is not spoken of in the text Page 74 Figure 4.8 should read Table 4.8 Page 75 Parentheses, on the other hand, only affect the order of sending messages. No object is created, so in (expression), the expression will always be evaluated exactly once (assuming the sounding code is evaluated once). suggestion: move below the block examples also: what does (assuming the sounding code is evaluated once) refer to, is there an example missing ?? block examples: "the argument is evaluated more than once , so must be a block" the comma should be on line above and it should read: "the argument is evaluated more than once, so it must be a block" receiver is evaluated once, so is not a block" should read: receiver is evaluated once, so it is not a block" Page 82 needs to now about this. should read needs to know about this. Chris From ckasso at sprynet.com Sun Apr 6 23:09:14 2008 From: ckasso at sprynet.com (ckasso) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2008 17:09:14 -0400 Subject: [sbe-discussion] message send vs expression Message-ID: <1207516154.8983.2.camel@creek> Greetings, I think the chapter "Understanding Message Syntax" is the most important of the book. If you don't get what this chapter says the rest is a struggle. So, this chapter needs to be clear, precise and consistent. The terms message, message send, and expression are key terms that are not used very consistently throughout. For example, figures 4.1 and 4.2 are side by side on page 70: Figure 4.1 Color r: 1 g: 0 b: 0 is described as a message send in the drawing but it is called a message in the text. r: 1 g: 0 b: 0 is described as a message in the drawing. Figure 4.2 aMorph color: Color yellow is described as two expressions Sometimes a message send is called a message, sometimes an expression. I think that the terms of Figure 4.1 should be used wherever possible (they are the most smalltalkish) and that the term expression should be used for 2 or more message sends or other expressions. That would make the drawing of 4.1 accurate. The text would change to: Figure 4.1: Two message sends each composed of a receiver, a method selector, and a set of arguments. and the text of 4.2 would change to: Figure 4.2: aMorph color: Color yellow is an expression composed of two message sends Color yellow and aMorph color: Color yellow. There are other places in the chapter where this could be done. What do you think? Chris From stephane.ducasse at free.fr Mon Apr 7 08:27:40 2008 From: stephane.ducasse at free.fr (stephane ducasse) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 08:27:40 +0200 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: message send vs expression In-Reply-To: <1207516154.8983.2.camel@creek> References: <1207516154.8983.2.camel@creek> Message-ID: This is strange because I worked a lot on this chapter (also for the botsinc book) and may be I messed up with the files. On Apr 6, 2008, at 11:09 PM, ckasso wrote: > Greetings, > > I think the chapter "Understanding Message Syntax" is the most > important > of the book. If you don't get what this chapter says the rest is a > struggle. So, this chapter needs to be clear, precise and consistent. > > The terms message, message send, and expression are key terms that are > not used very consistently throughout. For example, figures 4.1 and > 4.2 > are side by side on page 70: > > Figure 4.1 > Color r: 1 g: 0 b: 0 is described as a message send in the drawing but > it is called a message in the text. r: 1 g: 0 b: 0 is described as a > message in the drawing. > > Figure 4.2 > aMorph color: Color yellow is described as two expressions > > Sometimes a message send is called a message, sometimes an expression. a message is an expression expressions are assignement definition || message blocks variables I have to check in the other book there was a first chapter introducing that then later on I had Understanding Syntax. So now it seems that the intro is missing (even if in the chapter 3 this is somehow mentioned). > > I think that the terms of Figure 4.1 should be used wherever possible > (they are the most smalltalkish) and that the term expression should > be > used for 2 or more message sends or other expressions. Not really see above, > > > That would make the drawing of 4.1 accurate. The text would change to: > > Figure 4.1: Two message sends each > composed of a receiver, a method > selector, and a set of arguments. > > and the text of 4.2 would change to: > > Figure 4.2: aMorph color: Color yellow > is an expression composed of two > message sends Color yellow and > aMorph color: Color yellow. > > There are other places in the chapter where this could be done. What > do > you think? > Thanks for finding that lack. > Chris > > > _______________________________________________ > Sbe-discussion mailing list > Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion > From stephane.ducasse at free.fr Mon Apr 7 08:28:38 2008 From: stephane.ducasse at free.fr (stephane ducasse) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 08:28:38 +0200 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: message send vs expression In-Reply-To: <1207516154.8983.2.camel@creek> References: <1207516154.8983.2.camel@creek> Message-ID: <7C83AD90-5468-4A43-8BA8-7ADD71B25031@free.fr> Hi authors I will chekc the botsinc book because in there it was really polished (but I'm not sure I got a good description of what were expressions since I introduced variables much later on). Stef On Apr 6, 2008, at 11:09 PM, ckasso wrote: > Greetings, > > I think the chapter "Understanding Message Syntax" is the most > important > of the book. If you don't get what this chapter says the rest is a > struggle. So, this chapter needs to be clear, precise and consistent. > > The terms message, message send, and expression are key terms that are > not used very consistently throughout. For example, figures 4.1 and > 4.2 > are side by side on page 70: > > Figure 4.1 > Color r: 1 g: 0 b: 0 is described as a message send in the drawing but > it is called a message in the text. r: 1 g: 0 b: 0 is described as a > message in the drawing. > > Figure 4.2 > aMorph color: Color yellow is described as two expressions > > Sometimes a message send is called a message, sometimes an expression. > I think that the terms of Figure 4.1 should be used wherever possible > (they are the most smalltalkish) and that the term expression should > be > used for 2 or more message sends or other expressions. > > That would make the drawing of 4.1 accurate. The text would change to: > > Figure 4.1: Two message sends each > composed of a receiver, a method > selector, and a set of arguments. > > and the text of 4.2 would change to: > > Figure 4.2: aMorph color: Color yellow > is an expression composed of two > message sends Color yellow and > aMorph color: Color yellow. > > There are other places in the chapter where this could be done. What > do > you think? > > Chris > > > _______________________________________________ > Sbe-discussion mailing list > Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion > From oscar at iam.unibe.ch Mon Apr 7 09:23:12 2008 From: oscar at iam.unibe.ch (Oscar Nierstrasz) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 09:23:12 +0200 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: message send vs expression In-Reply-To: References: <1207516154.8983.2.camel@creek> Message-ID: <0E15F3FA-E180-41EB-AE9B-CDBC7728746B@iam.unibe.ch> Chris is right. we should take a careful look again at this chapter. Obviously I missed a lot of inconsistencies while I was editing it. On Apr 7, 2008, at 8:27, stephane ducasse wrote: >> Sometimes a message send is called a message, sometimes an >> expression. > > a message is an expression > expressions are > > assignement > definition || > message > blocks > variables No. Chris is right. A message *send* is an expression. There are other expressions too. 1 + 2 is an expression and it is also a message send. The message is "+ 2", which is not an expression. - on From roethlis at iam.unibe.ch Mon Apr 7 10:54:06 2008 From: roethlis at iam.unibe.ch (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?David_R=F6thlisberger?=) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 10:54:06 +0200 Subject: [sbe-discussion] System browser used in SBE Message-ID: <47F9E12E.5070505@iam.unibe.ch> Hello, Recently, there was a posting in squeak-dev complaining about the default browser used in the dev-images for Squeak (http://www.nabble.com/-squeak-dev--Squeak-dev-default-browser-to16517308.html). The default browser in the dev-image is the OmniBrowser. One argument in that complaint was that Squeak by Example explains how to use the ST80-browser, but does not use the OmniBrowser based system browser. Hence newbies get confused if they can't find in the dev-image the browser command or action being described in Squeak by Example. Now my question is what browser should Squeak by Example actually cover? As SBE recommends to use the Squeak-dev image, then chapter 6, where the browser is actually explained, is incorrectly refering to the ST80 browser as the standard browser, because people will get the OmniBrowser as the default browser instead. This might create confusion. As there will be a dedicated chapter to OmniBrowser in version 2 of the book, wouldn't it make sense to cover just the OmniBrowser as the standard browser throughout the whole book and neglecting all the others? It is very confusing to have all these various browsers around in Squeak anyway, so an introduction to Squeak should try to minimize this confusion. Currently, Chapter 6 covers two browsers, ST80 and OmniBrowser, but as the former provides less functionality than the latter, I see no particular reason why the ST80 browser has to be covered at all. IMHO covering two browsers creates more confusion than it helps. It makes sense to mention the existence of the various available browsers, but to cover more than one browser in detail makes things harder to get. Eg. the inheritance browser is once shown for the ST80 browser (fig. 6.9) and once for OmniBrowser (fig. 6.10). But is this understandable for a newbie? I guess that people only use one or the other browser, so they only have one variant of the inheritance browser available. If they would eg. change from ST80 to OmniBrowser to use the enhanced inheritance browser, several explanations in Chapter 6 made for ST80 browser wouldn't be valid for the browser they use now... I'm not saying that the browser of choice has to be the OmniBrowser, it can also be the ST80 browser, but it seems important to me that the default browser setting in squeak-dev is in sync with what SBE expects it to be. Otherwise people can't find in the image what they read in the book. David From stephane.ducasse at free.fr Mon Apr 7 11:10:03 2008 From: stephane.ducasse at free.fr (stephane ducasse) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 11:10:03 +0200 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: System browser used in SBE In-Reply-To: <47F9E12E.5070505@iam.unibe.ch> References: <47F9E12E.5070505@iam.unibe.ch> Message-ID: <70229084-8DEF-4AA2-886C-46DB25509922@free.fr> I understand your point. The problem is that it would be good to have version of OB that is stable in terms of its menu and behavior. What is displayed when. > Recently, there was a posting in squeak-dev complaining about the > default browser > used in the dev-images for Squeak > (http://www.nabble.com/-squeak-dev--Squeak-dev-default-browser-to16517308.html > ). > The default browser in the dev-image is the OmniBrowser. > > One argument in that complaint was that Squeak by Example explains > how to use the > ST80-browser, but does not use the OmniBrowser based system browser. > Hence newbies > get confused if they can't find in the dev-image the browser command > or action being > described in Squeak by Example. > > Now my question is what browser should Squeak by Example actually > cover? As SBE > recommends to use the Squeak-dev image, then chapter 6, where the > browser is actually > explained, is incorrectly refering to the ST80 browser as the > standard browser, > because people will get the OmniBrowser as the default browser > instead. This might > create confusion. > > As there will be a dedicated chapter to OmniBrowser in version 2 of > the book, > wouldn't it make sense to cover just the OmniBrowser as the standard > browser > throughout the whole book and neglecting all the others? > It is very confusing to have all these various browsers around in > Squeak anyway, so > an introduction to Squeak should try to minimize this confusion. > Currently, Chapter 6 > covers two browsers, ST80 and OmniBrowser, but as the former > provides less > functionality than the latter, I see no particular reason why the > ST80 browser has to > be covered at all. IMHO covering two browsers creates more confusion > than it helps. > > It makes sense to mention the existence of the various available > browsers, but to > cover more than one browser in detail makes things harder to get. > Eg. the inheritance browser is once shown for the ST80 browser (fig. > 6.9) and once > for OmniBrowser (fig. 6.10). But is this understandable for a > newbie? I guess that > people only use one or the other browser, so they only have one > variant of the > inheritance browser available. If they would eg. change from ST80 to > OmniBrowser to > use the enhanced inheritance browser, several explanations in > Chapter 6 made for ST80 > browser wouldn't be valid for the browser they use now... > > I'm not saying that the browser of choice has to be the OmniBrowser, > it can also be > the ST80 browser, but it seems important to me that the default > browser setting in > squeak-dev is in sync with what SBE expects it to be. Otherwise > people can't find in > the image what they read in the book. > > > David > _______________________________________________ > Sbe-discussion mailing list > Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion > From alexandre at bergel.eu Mon Apr 7 13:41:15 2008 From: alexandre at bergel.eu (Alexandre Bergel) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 07:41:15 -0400 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: System browser used in SBE In-Reply-To: <47F9E12E.5070505@iam.unibe.ch> References: <47F9E12E.5070505@iam.unibe.ch> Message-ID: <0DE2642F-F753-4883-A3D7-0C5D31F83D46@bergel.eu> I agree with you David. I have been using the new browser in Squeak- dev. I like it a lot. But it changes the language it self (we do not have class category anymore, but only packages). I would vote for having a description of this browser in Book2. We still have time to make a stable distribution... Alexandre On 7 Apr 2008, at 04:54, David R?thlisberger wrote: > Hello, > > Recently, there was a posting in squeak-dev complaining about the > default browser > used in the dev-images for Squeak > (http://www.nabble.com/-squeak-dev--Squeak-dev-default-browser- > to16517308.html). > The default browser in the dev-image is the OmniBrowser. > > One argument in that complaint was that Squeak by Example explains > how to use the > ST80-browser, but does not use the OmniBrowser based system > browser. Hence newbies > get confused if they can't find in the dev-image the browser > command or action being > described in Squeak by Example. > > Now my question is what browser should Squeak by Example actually > cover? As SBE > recommends to use the Squeak-dev image, then chapter 6, where the > browser is actually > explained, is incorrectly refering to the ST80 browser as the > standard browser, > because people will get the OmniBrowser as the default browser > instead. This might > create confusion. > > As there will be a dedicated chapter to OmniBrowser in version 2 of > the book, > wouldn't it make sense to cover just the OmniBrowser as the > standard browser > throughout the whole book and neglecting all the others? > It is very confusing to have all these various browsers around in > Squeak anyway, so > an introduction to Squeak should try to minimize this confusion. > Currently, Chapter 6 > covers two browsers, ST80 and OmniBrowser, but as the former > provides less > functionality than the latter, I see no particular reason why the > ST80 browser has to > be covered at all. IMHO covering two browsers creates more > confusion than it helps. > It makes sense to mention the existence of the various available > browsers, but to > cover more than one browser in detail makes things harder to get. > Eg. the inheritance browser is once shown for the ST80 browser > (fig. 6.9) and once > for OmniBrowser (fig. 6.10). But is this understandable for a > newbie? I guess that > people only use one or the other browser, so they only have one > variant of the > inheritance browser available. If they would eg. change from ST80 > to OmniBrowser to > use the enhanced inheritance browser, several explanations in > Chapter 6 made for ST80 > browser wouldn't be valid for the browser they use now... > > I'm not saying that the browser of choice has to be the > OmniBrowser, it can also be > the ST80 browser, but it seems important to me that the default > browser setting in > squeak-dev is in sync with what SBE expects it to be. Otherwise > people can't find in > the image what they read in the book. > > > David > _______________________________________________ > Sbe-discussion mailing list > Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. From david.mitchell at gmail.com Mon Apr 7 13:48:25 2008 From: david.mitchell at gmail.com (David Mitchell) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 06:48:25 -0500 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: System browser used in SBE In-Reply-To: <0DE2642F-F753-4883-A3D7-0C5D31F83D46@bergel.eu> References: <47F9E12E.5070505@iam.unibe.ch> <0DE2642F-F753-4883-A3D7-0C5D31F83D46@bergel.eu> Message-ID: <8bc830730804070448u525f80f0u63d71f3beb3ea3ff@mail.gmail.com> The book should refer to a fixed version of Squeak-dev (or whatever) in each release of the book. Saying, grab the current release of anything is dangerous in print. The current Squeak-dev shouldn't remain frozen to Squeak by Example. On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 6:41 AM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > I agree with you David. I have been using the new browser in Squeak- > dev. I like it a lot. But it changes the language it self (we do not > have class category anymore, but only packages). > I would vote for having a description of this browser in Book2. We > still have time to make a stable distribution... > > Alexandre > > > > > On 7 Apr 2008, at 04:54, David R?thlisberger wrote: > > Hello, > > > > Recently, there was a posting in squeak-dev complaining about the > > default browser > > used in the dev-images for Squeak > > (http://www.nabble.com/-squeak-dev--Squeak-dev-default-browser- > > to16517308.html). > > The default browser in the dev-image is the OmniBrowser. > > > > One argument in that complaint was that Squeak by Example explains > > how to use the > > ST80-browser, but does not use the OmniBrowser based system > > browser. Hence newbies > > get confused if they can't find in the dev-image the browser > > command or action being > > described in Squeak by Example. > > > > Now my question is what browser should Squeak by Example actually > > cover? As SBE > > recommends to use the Squeak-dev image, then chapter 6, where the > > browser is actually > > explained, is incorrectly refering to the ST80 browser as the > > standard browser, > > because people will get the OmniBrowser as the default browser > > instead. This might > > create confusion. > > > > As there will be a dedicated chapter to OmniBrowser in version 2 of > > the book, > > wouldn't it make sense to cover just the OmniBrowser as the > > standard browser > > throughout the whole book and neglecting all the others? > > It is very confusing to have all these various browsers around in > > Squeak anyway, so > > an introduction to Squeak should try to minimize this confusion. > > Currently, Chapter 6 > > covers two browsers, ST80 and OmniBrowser, but as the former > > provides less > > functionality than the latter, I see no particular reason why the > > ST80 browser has to > > be covered at all. IMHO covering two browsers creates more > > confusion than it helps. > > It makes sense to mention the existence of the various available > > browsers, but to > > cover more than one browser in detail makes things harder to get. > > Eg. the inheritance browser is once shown for the ST80 browser > > (fig. 6.9) and once > > for OmniBrowser (fig. 6.10). But is this understandable for a > > newbie? I guess that > > people only use one or the other browser, so they only have one > > variant of the > > inheritance browser available. If they would eg. change from ST80 > > to OmniBrowser to > > use the enhanced inheritance browser, several explanations in > > Chapter 6 made for ST80 > > browser wouldn't be valid for the browser they use now... > > > > I'm not saying that the browser of choice has to be the > > OmniBrowser, it can also be > > the ST80 browser, but it seems important to me that the default > > browser setting in > > squeak-dev is in sync with what SBE expects it to be. Otherwise > > people can't find in > > the image what they read in the book. > > > > > > David > > _______________________________________________ > > Sbe-discussion mailing list > > Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch > > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion > > > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sbe-discussion mailing list > Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion > From stephane.ducasse at free.fr Mon Apr 7 17:46:01 2008 From: stephane.ducasse at free.fr (stephane ducasse) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 17:46:01 +0200 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: System browser used in SBE In-Reply-To: <0DE2642F-F753-4883-A3D7-0C5D31F83D46@bergel.eu> References: <47F9E12E.5070505@iam.unibe.ch> <0DE2642F-F753-4883-A3D7-0C5D31F83D46@bergel.eu> Message-ID: On Apr 7, 2008, at 1:41 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > I agree with you David. I have been using the new browser in Squeak- > dev. I like it a lot. But it changes the language it self (we do not > have class category anymore, but only packages). Not the language. categories are not part of the language. The biggest problem is what will happen if OB menu changes again. The stability of the interface and functionality of OB. > I would vote for having a description of this browser in Book2. We > still have time to make a stable distribution... From ckasso at sprynet.com Mon Apr 7 20:04:42 2008 From: ckasso at sprynet.com (ckasso) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 14:04:42 -0400 Subject: [sbe-discussion] rata Message-ID: <1207591482.12498.6.camel@creek> Greetings, Page 113 slighlty > slightly Page 116 While viewing any one of these method, > methods Page 117 to it as argument, > to it as an argument, Page 124 Programatically > Programmatically accesible > accessible Page 125 methods in a one package > methods in a package Page 131 use the Copy in > use Copy or > use the Copy button Page 142 the work of a second > a second of work Page 151 show the the methods > show the methods Page 157 you or some else > you or someone else Chris From roethlis at iam.unibe.ch Fri Apr 11 10:46:00 2008 From: roethlis at iam.unibe.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?David_R=F6thlisberger?=) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:46:00 +0200 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: System browser used in SBE In-Reply-To: <70229084-8DEF-4AA2-886C-46DB25509922@free.fr> References: <47F9E12E.5070505@iam.unibe.ch> <70229084-8DEF-4AA2-886C-46DB25509922@free.fr> Message-ID: <47FF2548.50607@iam.unibe.ch> > I understand your point. The problem is that it would be good to have > version of OB that > is stable in terms of its menu and behavior. What is displayed when. Yes, I agree, this is certainly needed when this browser is to be described in a book. The original OBSystemBrowser (not the one which displays packages) is fairly stable in its interface and behavior though. It could be an option to describe just this browser instead of the old ST80 browser. Of course OB developers need to take care to not change the OB interface a lot anymore, but this wasn't the case already in the last couple of months. Squeak-dev could then set the default from OBPackageBrowser to OBSystemBrowser, so that there is no delta between what is described in the book and what people see in the image. Even if the default browser setting in Squeak-dev is kept as it is now (ie. OBPackageBrowser) then the delta between the image and the book is much smaller when the book describes the OBSystemBrowser. I think most confusion gets created because OB simply doesn't implement the same commands/actions or does use different names for actions, buttons, panes. But OBPackageBrowser does share all these things with OBSystemBrowser, it just adds more stuff. So this seems to be an option to me, to describe the OB variant of the system browser. David >> Recently, there was a posting in squeak-dev complaining about the >> default browser >> used in the dev-images for Squeak >> (http://www.nabble.com/-squeak-dev--Squeak-dev-default-browser-to16517308.html >> ). >> The default browser in the dev-image is the OmniBrowser. >> >> One argument in that complaint was that Squeak by Example explains >> how to use the >> ST80-browser, but does not use the OmniBrowser based system browser. >> Hence newbies >> get confused if they can't find in the dev-image the browser command >> or action being >> described in Squeak by Example. >> >> Now my question is what browser should Squeak by Example actually >> cover? As SBE >> recommends to use the Squeak-dev image, then chapter 6, where the >> browser is actually >> explained, is incorrectly refering to the ST80 browser as the >> standard browser, >> because people will get the OmniBrowser as the default browser >> instead. This might >> create confusion. >> >> As there will be a dedicated chapter to OmniBrowser in version 2 of >> the book, >> wouldn't it make sense to cover just the OmniBrowser as the standard >> browser >> throughout the whole book and neglecting all the others? >> It is very confusing to have all these various browsers around in >> Squeak anyway, so >> an introduction to Squeak should try to minimize this confusion. >> Currently, Chapter 6 >> covers two browsers, ST80 and OmniBrowser, but as the former >> provides less >> functionality than the latter, I see no particular reason why the >> ST80 browser has to >> be covered at all. IMHO covering two browsers creates more confusion >> than it helps. > >> It makes sense to mention the existence of the various available >> browsers, but to >> cover more than one browser in detail makes things harder to get. >> Eg. the inheritance browser is once shown for the ST80 browser (fig. >> 6.9) and once >> for OmniBrowser (fig. 6.10). But is this understandable for a >> newbie? I guess that >> people only use one or the other browser, so they only have one >> variant of the >> inheritance browser available. If they would eg. change from ST80 to >> OmniBrowser to >> use the enhanced inheritance browser, several explanations in >> Chapter 6 made for ST80 >> browser wouldn't be valid for the browser they use now... >> >> I'm not saying that the browser of choice has to be the OmniBrowser, >> it can also be >> the ST80 browser, but it seems important to me that the default >> browser setting in >> squeak-dev is in sync with what SBE expects it to be. Otherwise >> people can't find in >> the image what they read in the book. >> >> >> David >> _______________________________________________ >> Sbe-discussion mailing list >> Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion >> > > _______________________________________________ > Sbe-discussion mailing list > Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion -- ________________________________ Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen David R?thlisberger Doktorand Software Composition Group IAM Uni Bern From victor.palique at gmail.com Sat Apr 12 03:52:57 2008 From: victor.palique at gmail.com (Victor Rodriguez) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 21:52:57 -0400 Subject: [sbe-discussion] SBE suggestion: explain ^ (return) inside blocks Message-ID: <3bee9c1d0804111852m14d3d902sca15c8f895280854@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I think it would be good if non-local returns from blocks (excuse me if that is not the right terminology) were explained in the book. The subject is only lightly touched upon in section 3.5, and IMO the following sentence can be confusing for newbies: "The block answers the value of the last expression in its body, unless there is an explicit return (with ^), in which case it does not answer any value." Some questions that come to mind are: How can you "return early" from the body of a block? What happens if a method returns a block with a return inside? What will happen when the block is evaluated? Why? Etc.. Saludos, Victor Rodriguez. From victor.palique at gmail.com Sat Apr 12 04:00:07 2008 From: victor.palique at gmail.com (Victor Rodriguez) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 22:00:07 -0400 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Two more suggestions (or, rather, rants) Message-ID: <3bee9c1d0804111900s47056d0qffd5b8a532bd3812@mail.gmail.com> Hi again, I have two more suggestions for your excellent book: 1) Please give up on the up arrow!, and 2) also on "color buttons". While I myself would rather have Smalltalk with left and up arrows for assignment and return, I know it is lost cause. In the book you have given up on using the left arrow for assignment, I think it would be useful if you also gave up on the up arrow for return and simply used ^. Now the second suggestion might just be a pet peeve of mine, but I find talking about mouse buttons by colors distracting and irritating ("which is the right button, the red one or the yellow one?"). Even if you don't want to use "left, middle, right", I think you could find another terminology (perhaps "main, context, morphic", etc..). Thank you for your attention! Saludos, Victor Rodriguez. From stephane.ducasse at free.fr Sat Apr 12 16:14:50 2008 From: stephane.ducasse at free.fr (stephane ducasse) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 16:14:50 +0200 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: SBE suggestion: explain ^ (return) inside blocks In-Reply-To: <3bee9c1d0804111852m14d3d902sca15c8f895280854@mail.gmail.com> References: <3bee9c1d0804111852m14d3d902sca15c8f895280854@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2842FCA4-7616-44CA-8245-7CAEA4653006@free.fr> we thought of that but did not cover it. With blocks you can implement exception mechanisms and it was not clear if explaining that would not hurt more than it should :) But thanks for your suggestion. On Apr 12, 2008, at 3:52 AM, Victor Rodriguez wrote: > Hello, > > I think it would be good if non-local returns from blocks (excuse me > if that is not the right terminology) were explained in the book. The > subject is only lightly touched upon in section 3.5, and IMO the > following sentence can be confusing for newbies: > > "The block answers the value of the last expression in its body, > unless there is an explicit return (with ^), in which case it does not > answer any value." > > Some questions that come to mind are: How can you "return early" from > the body of a block? What happens if a method returns a block with a > return inside? What will happen when the block is evaluated? Why? > Etc.. > > Saludos, > > Victor Rodriguez. > _______________________________________________ > Sbe-discussion mailing list > Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion > From stephane.ducasse at free.fr Sat Apr 12 16:18:32 2008 From: stephane.ducasse at free.fr (stephane ducasse) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 16:18:32 +0200 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: Two more suggestions (or, rather, rants) In-Reply-To: <3bee9c1d0804111900s47056d0qffd5b8a532bd3812@mail.gmail.com> References: <3bee9c1d0804111900s47056d0qffd5b8a532bd3812@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <51858FBB-3AE5-4671-A9FA-E22B218E9964@free.fr> On Apr 12, 2008, at 4:00 AM, Victor Rodriguez wrote: > Hi again, > > I have two more suggestions for your excellent book: 1) Please give > up on the up arrow!, and 2) also on "color buttons". > > While I myself would rather have Smalltalk with left and up arrows for > assignment and return, I know it is lost cause. Indeed! Have you tried to copy and past code in an email with a funky patched font as in Squeak.... terrible. And I'm talking about changing the fonts in your text editor > In the book you have > given up on using the left arrow for assignment, I think it would be > useful if you also gave up on the up arrow for return and simply used > ^. :) What is nice is that for the up arrow is that we can spot it faster than ^ but indeed we could do that. it should be on change somewhere in the latex. > Now the second suggestion might just be a pet peeve of mine, but I > find talking about mouse buttons by colors distracting and irritating > ("which is the right button, the red one or the yellow one?"). Even > if you don't want to use "left, middle, right", I think you could find > another terminology (perhaps "main, context, morphic", etc..). I totally agree on that one. I proposed to change that but we were too tired. :) select, operate and context would be better than this outdated colored scheme but this to follow MVC implementation > > > Thank you for your attention! > > Saludos, > > Victor Rodriguez. > _______________________________________________ > Sbe-discussion mailing list > Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion > From ronaldoferraz at gmail.com Wed Apr 23 05:27:06 2008 From: ronaldoferraz at gmail.com (Ronaldo Ferraz) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:27:06 -0300 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Portuguese Translation Message-ID: Hi, I've started a Portuguese translation of the book. My public repository is at: http://gitorious.org/projects/squeak-by-example Are there any guidelines about the translation? Cheers, -- Ronaldo Ferraz http://log.reflectivesurface.com From stephane.ducasse at free.fr Wed Apr 23 15:03:17 2008 From: stephane.ducasse at free.fr (stephane ducasse) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:03:17 +0200 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: Portuguese Translation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <11D5CE35-0C77-479E-A8CA-B0254BD6CAF3@free.fr> On Apr 23, 2008, at 5:27 AM, Ronaldo Ferraz wrote: > Hi, > > I've started a Portuguese translation of the book. My public > repository is at: > http://gitorious.org/projects/squeak-by-example Excellent. > Are there any guidelines about the translation? Not really. Announce to Squeak-dev to see if other people want to help you. Stef > > > Cheers, > > -- > Ronaldo Ferraz > http://log.reflectivesurface.com > _______________________________________________ > Sbe-discussion mailing list > Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion > From ronaldoferraz at gmail.com Wed Apr 23 15:24:45 2008 From: ronaldoferraz at gmail.com (Ronaldo Ferraz) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 10:24:45 -0300 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: Portuguese Translation In-Reply-To: <11D5CE35-0C77-479E-A8CA-B0254BD6CAF3@free.fr> References: <11D5CE35-0C77-479E-A8CA-B0254BD6CAF3@free.fr> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 10:03 AM, stephane ducasse wrote: > Not really. > Announce to Squeak-dev to see if other people want to help you. Cool. I'll do that. Thanks, Ronaldo From stephane.ducasse at free.fr Wed Apr 23 15:45:03 2008 From: stephane.ducasse at free.fr (stephane ducasse) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:45:03 +0200 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: Portuguese Translation In-Reply-To: References: <11D5CE35-0C77-479E-A8CA-B0254BD6CAF3@free.fr> Message-ID: keep us informed. Stef On Apr 23, 2008, at 3:24 PM, Ronaldo Ferraz wrote: > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 10:03 AM, stephane ducasse > wrote: >> Not really. >> Announce to Squeak-dev to see if other people want to help you. > > Cool. I'll do that. > > Thanks, > > Ronaldo > _______________________________________________ > Sbe-discussion mailing list > Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion > From brickviking at gmail.com Sun Apr 27 08:14:25 2008 From: brickviking at gmail.com (viking) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 18:14:25 +1200 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Book2/SBE2.tex Message-ID: Need to add a line so that diagrams get brought in for the Versioning chapter. --------------- Patch to $SRC/Book2/SBE2.tex ------------------------ --- SBE2-00.tex 2008-04-27 18:09:35.000000000 +1200 +++ SBE2.tex 2008-04-27 18:09:23.000000000 +1200 {Compiler/figures/} {Metaprogramming/figures/} {Profiling/figures/} + {Monticello/figures/} } %================================================================= \let\wholebook=\relax --------------- End of patch to $SRC/Book2/SBE2.tex ----------------- Cheers, you lot. Good work, by the way. The Viking. From deinst at gmail.com Mon Apr 28 14:34:01 2008 From: deinst at gmail.com (David Einstein) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:34:01 -0400 Subject: [sbe-discussion] SBE-Quinto bug of sorts Message-ID: <56750b780804280534s2e5f3f28l5c755cbfe4b13316@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I may be misunderstanding something, but if I click on a cell in the Quinto Game, drag the mouse slightly, and let the mouse up, then the clicked on cell gets toggled along with the surrounding cells. Yes, I realize that the game is just an example of smalltalk code, but unintended behavior can be confusing to someone who is not sure that his code is correct. Poking around a bit: the following seems to work without being too intrusive SBECell >> mouseUp: anEvent self setSwitchState: (oldColor = onColor). mouseAction value (It seems to work on my machine) Thanks for the great book. Learning Smalltalk has been on my to-do list for decades, you have finally made it possible /s/ Deinst -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/pipermail/sbe-discussion/attachments/20080428/6ab12ea4/attachment.html From yeoldemac at gmail.com Tue Apr 29 03:31:22 2008 From: yeoldemac at gmail.com (YeOlde Mac) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:31:22 -0700 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Quinto Example Code Not Working I'm working through the Squeak by Example book and ran into a snag. The code on page 33 for the Quinto game method. I have the SBECell selected and "all is highlighted in the right pane, just like in the book, but it responds with the message "Unknown variable: initialize please correct or cancel: / declare temp / declare instance / cancel". It doesn't seem to be recognizing "initialize". Here's the code: initialize super initialize. self label: ''. self borderWidth: 2. bounds := 0@0 corner: 16@16. offColor := Color paleYellow. onColor := Color paleBlue darker. self useSquareCorners. self turnOff I even downloaded the code for the book from Squeaksource and pasted it in and it does the same thing. Thanks, - Eric (Dr. Zephy) Message-ID: I'm working through the Squeak by Example book and ran into a snag. The code on page 33 for the Quinto game is returning an error message. I have the SBECell selected and "-- all --" is highlighted in the right pane, just like in the book, but it responds with the message "Unknown variable: initialize please correct or cancel: / declare temp / declare instance / cancel". It doesn't seem to be recognizing "initialize". Here's the code: initialize super initialize. self label: ''. self borderWidth: 2. bounds := 0 at 0 corner: 16 at 16. offColor := Color paleYellow. onColor := Color paleBlue darker. self useSquareCorners. self turnOff I even downloaded the code for the book from Squeaksource and pasted it in and it does the same thing. Thanks, - Eric (Dr. Zephy) From brickviking at gmail.com Tue Apr 29 05:15:55 2008 From: brickviking at gmail.com (viking) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:15:55 +1200 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Some Errata References: <1206973740.9859.29.camel@creek> Message-ID: More errata for Book2/ The Makefile:bare target accidentally nukes Book2/figures/squeak_logo.png. And previous to this, I'd mentioned a SBE2.tex possible missing line for inclusion of Monticello figures. Hope you lot are getting all this. Cheers, The Viking From stephane.ducasse at free.fr Tue Apr 29 07:56:41 2008 From: stephane.ducasse at free.fr (stephane ducasse) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:56:41 +0200 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: Some Errata In-Reply-To: References: <1206973740.9859.29.camel@creek> Message-ID: <3FFA7F9A-97A8-46CA-9A58-D6D572F9BCE1@free.fr> Wait book2 is not public and not released. Stef On Apr 29, 2008, at 5:15 AM, viking wrote: > > More errata for Book2/ > > The Makefile:bare target accidentally nukes Book2/figures/ > squeak_logo.png. > > And previous to this, I'd mentioned a SBE2.tex possible missing line > for > inclusion of Monticello figures. Hope you lot are getting all this. > > Cheers, The Viking > > _______________________________________________ > Sbe-discussion mailing list > Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion > From stephane.ducasse at free.fr Tue Apr 29 07:59:09 2008 From: stephane.ducasse at free.fr (stephane ducasse) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:59:09 +0200 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: Quinto Example Code Not Working I'm working through the Squeak by Example book and ran into a snag. The code on page 33 for the Quinto game method. I have the SBECell selected and "all is highlighted in the right pane, just like in the book, but it responds with the message "Unknown variable: initialize please correct or cancel: / declare temp / declare instance / cancel". It doesn't seem to be recognizing "initialize". Here's the code: initialize super initialize. self label: ''. self borderWidth: 2. bounds := 0@0 corner: 16@16. offColor := Color paleYellow. onColor := Color paleBlue darker. self useSquareCorners. self turnOff I even downloaded the code for the book from Squeaksource and pasted it in and it does the same thing. Thanks, - Eric (Dr. Zephy) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9BC188BA-0E84-4B14-BCB8-E6A090C0A78E@free.fr> this is strange and may be not a problem with the code but wth the browser. try to add a method category and to paste the code. stef On Apr 29, 2008, at 3:31 AM, YeOlde Mac wrote: > I'm working through the Squeak by Example book and ran into a snag. > The code on page 33 for the Quinto game is returning an error message. > I have the SBECell selected and "-- all --" is highlighted in the > right pane, just like in the book, but it responds with the message > "Unknown variable: initialize please correct or cancel: / declare > temp / declare instance / cancel". It doesn't seem to be recognizing > "initialize". > > Here's the code: > > initialize > super initialize. > self label: ''. > self borderWidth: 2. > bounds := 0 at 0 corner: 16 at 16. > offColor := Color paleYellow. > onColor := Color paleBlue darker. > self useSquareCorners. > self turnOff > > > I even downloaded the code for the book from Squeaksource and pasted > it in and it does the same thing. > > Thanks, > - Eric (Dr. Zephy) > > _______________________________________________ > Sbe-discussion mailing list > Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion > From yeoldemac at gmail.com Tue Apr 29 16:25:44 2008 From: yeoldemac at gmail.com (YeOlde Mac) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:25:44 -0700 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: Quinto Example Code Not Working In-Reply-To: <9BC188BA-0E84-4B14-BCB8-E6A090C0A78E@free.fr> References: <9BC188BA-0E84-4B14-BCB8-E6A090C0A78E@free.fr> Message-ID: <36400196-0682-4F14-A8AE-07B75A15CB20@gmail.com> Well, it turns out that when you click in the class pane, and --all -- highlights, that's not really the same as selecting it. The clue was that I was not getting the default template - I read in the book "You will see a template for method creation in the editing pane." - rather what I was seeing was the SimpleSwitchMorph subclass: #SBECell instanceVariableNames: 'mouseAction' classVariableNames: '' poolDictionaries: '' category: 'SBE-Quinto' Because when I clicked on "no messages" I got: messageSelectorAndArgumentNames "comment stating purpose of message" | temporary variable names | statements ... which is the blank template, which is what it sounded like what I should be getting. So then I went from that point (having selected "no messages") and clicked on "-- all --" and got the above template. Aha! The tutorial did not explain that little, very significant fact! Being highlighted is not the same as being selected!! Aggghh!!!! How the heck was I supposed to know that?! Two different states, the same visual feedback - not a good design, or a bug? I lost a day scratching my head. Ah well, at least I can go on and start coding and learning now. On Apr 28, 2008, at 10:59 PM, stephane ducasse wrote: > this is strange and may be not a problem with the code but wth the > browser. > try to add a method category and to paste the code. > > > stef > > On Apr 29, 2008, at 3:31 AM, YeOlde Mac wrote: > >> I'm working through the Squeak by Example book and ran into a snag. >> The code on page 33 for the Quinto game is returning an error >> message. >> I have the SBECell selected and "-- all --" is highlighted in the >> right pane, just like in the book, but it responds with the message >> "Unknown variable: initialize please correct or cancel: / declare >> temp / declare instance / cancel". It doesn't seem to be recognizing >> "initialize". >> >> Here's the code: >> >> initialize >> super initialize. >> self label: ''. >> self borderWidth: 2. >> bounds := 0 at 0 corner: 16 at 16. >> offColor := Color paleYellow. >> onColor := Color paleBlue darker. >> self useSquareCorners. >> self turnOff >> >> >> I even downloaded the code for the book from Squeaksource and pasted >> it in and it does the same thing. >> >> Thanks, >> - Eric (Dr. Zephy) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sbe-discussion mailing list >> Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion >> > > _______________________________________________ > Sbe-discussion mailing list > Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/pipermail/sbe-discussion/attachments/20080429/de8bb1e7/attachment-0001.html From black at cs.pdx.edu Tue Apr 29 18:28:11 2008 From: black at cs.pdx.edu (Andrew P. Black) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:28:11 -0700 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: Quinto Example Code Not Working In-Reply-To: <9BC188BA-0E84-4B14-BCB8-E6A090C0A78E@free.fr> References: <9BC188BA-0E84-4B14-BCB8-E6A090C0A78E@free.fr> Message-ID: <1310C257-5373-4B2D-B18A-E915BDA3F418@cs.pdx.edu> There was a version of the browser that wouldn't let one edit in the --all-- virtual category. I had hoped that this was long dead. Andrew On 28 Apr 2008, at 22:59, stephane ducasse wrote: > this is strange and may be not a problem with the code but wth the > browser. > try to add a method category and to paste the code. > > > stef > > On Apr 29, 2008, at 3:31 AM, YeOlde Mac wrote: > >> I'm working through the Squeak by Example book and ran into a snag. >> The code on page 33 for the Quinto game is returning an error >> message. >> I have the SBECell selected and "-- all --" is highlighted in the >> right pane, just like in the book, but it responds with the message >> "Unknown variable: initialize please correct or cancel: / declare >> temp / declare instance / cancel". It doesn't seem to be recognizing >> "initialize". >> >> Here's the code: >> >> initialize >> super initialize. >> self label: ''. >> self borderWidth: 2. >> bounds := 0 at 0 corner: 16 at 16. >> offColor := Color paleYellow. >> onColor := Color paleBlue darker. >> self useSquareCorners. >> self turnOff >> >> >> I even downloaded the code for the book from Squeaksource and pasted >> it in and it does the same thing. >> >> Thanks, >> - Eric (Dr. Zephy) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sbe-discussion mailing list >> Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion >> > > _______________________________________________ > Sbe-discussion mailing list > Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion Professor Andrew P. Black Department of Computer Science Portland State University +1 503 725 2411 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/pipermail/sbe-discussion/attachments/20080429/b12f132d/attachment.html From yeoldemac at gmail.com Tue Apr 29 22:48:12 2008 From: yeoldemac at gmail.com (YeOlde Mac) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 13:48:12 -0700 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: Quinto Example Code Not Working In-Reply-To: <1310C257-5373-4B2D-B18A-E915BDA3F418@cs.pdx.edu> References: <9BC188BA-0E84-4B14-BCB8-E6A090C0A78E@free.fr> <1310C257-5373-4B2D-B18A-E915BDA3F418@cs.pdx.edu> Message-ID: I'm using the image 3.9.1_7075dev08.04. I'm not sure if we are talking about the same issue. The situation, I discovered (since my initial post), is that one as to click on the -- all--, then on the category below it, then on --all-- again to actually select it and get the blank template. On Apr 29, 2008, at 9:28 AM, Andrew P. Black wrote: > There was a version of the browser that wouldn't let one edit in > the --all-- virtual category. I had hoped that this was long dead. > > Andrew > > On 28 Apr 2008, at 22:59, stephane ducasse wrote: > >> this is strange and may be not a problem with the code but wth the >> browser. >> try to add a method category and to paste the code. >> >> >> stef >> >> On Apr 29, 2008, at 3:31 AM, YeOlde Mac wrote: >> >>> I'm working through the Squeak by Example book and ran into a snag. >>> The code on page 33 for the Quinto game is returning an error >>> message. >>> I have the SBECell selected and "-- all --" is highlighted in the >>> right pane, just like in the book, but it responds with the message >>> "Unknown variable: initialize please correct or cancel: / declare >>> temp / declare instance / cancel". It doesn't seem to be recognizing >>> "initialize". >>> >>> Here's the code: >>> >>> initialize >>> super initialize. >>> self label: ''. >>> self borderWidth: 2. >>> bounds := 0 at 0 corner: 16 at 16. >>> offColor := Color paleYellow. >>> onColor := Color paleBlue darker. >>> self useSquareCorners. >>> self turnOff >>> >>> >>> I even downloaded the code for the book from Squeaksource and pasted >>> it in and it does the same thing. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> - Eric (Dr. Zephy) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sbe-discussion mailing list >>> Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sbe-discussion mailing list >> Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion > > Professor Andrew P. Black > Department of Computer Science > Portland State University > +1 503 725 2411 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sbe-discussion mailing list > Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/pipermail/sbe-discussion/attachments/20080429/ca8c4d85/attachment.html From roethlis at iam.unibe.ch Wed Apr 30 12:17:33 2008 From: roethlis at iam.unibe.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?David_R=F6thlisberger?=) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:17:33 +0200 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: Quinto Example Code Not Working In-Reply-To: References: <9BC188BA-0E84-4B14-BCB8-E6A090C0A78E@free.fr> <1310C257-5373-4B2D-B18A-E915BDA3F418@cs.pdx.edu> Message-ID: <4818473D.9060402@iam.unibe.ch> > I'm not sure if we are talking about the same issue. The situation, I > discovered (since my initial post), is that one as to click on the > --all--, then on the category below it, then on --all-- again to > actually select it and get the blank template. Right, I can confirm that. This is a feature of OmniBrowser, the version of the system browser you are using. In the book another browser is described, the old traditional browser of Squeak. This browser does not select the --all-- category automatically when selecting a class while OmniBrowser does this. In order to still be able to see the class definition, OmniBrowser does not show the blank template when automatically selecting the --all-- category. This is a glitch of OmniBrowser, although it is a feature, not a bug. The actual problem I think is that SBE does not describe the same browser as the Squeak-dev is using by default. Although both browsers are similar, there are some minor differences that can create quite some confusion. I personally believe that this problem should get addressed by either describing the OmniBrowser in the book or by changing the default browser in the dev-image to the old browser. Cheers, David > On Apr 29, 2008, at 9:28 AM, Andrew P. Black wrote: > >> There was a version of the browser that wouldn't let one edit in the >> --all-- virtual category. I had hoped that this was long dead. >> >> Andrew >> >> On 28 Apr 2008, at 22:59, stephane ducasse wrote: >> >>> this is strange and may be not a problem with the code but wth the >>> browser. >>> try to add a method category and to paste the code. >>> >>> >>> stef >>> >>> On Apr 29, 2008, at 3:31 AM, YeOlde Mac wrote: >>> >>>> I'm working through the Squeak by Example book and ran into a snag. >>>> The code on page 33 for the Quinto game is returning an error message. >>>> I have the SBECell selected and "-- all --" is highlighted in the >>>> right pane, just like in the book, but it responds with the message >>>> "Unknown variable: initialize please correct or cancel: / declare >>>> temp / declare instance / cancel". It doesn't seem to be recognizing >>>> "initialize". >>>> >>>> Here's the code: >>>> >>>> initialize >>>> super initialize. >>>> self label: ''. >>>> self borderWidth: 2. >>>> bounds := 0 at 0 corner: 16 at 16. >>>> offColor := Color paleYellow. >>>> onColor := Color paleBlue darker. >>>> self useSquareCorners. >>>> self turnOff >>>> >>>> >>>> I even downloaded the code for the book from Squeaksource and pasted >>>> it in and it does the same thing. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> - Eric (Dr. Zephy) >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sbe-discussion mailing list >>>> Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sbe-discussion mailing list >>> Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion >> >> Professor Andrew P. Black >> Department of Computer Science >> Portland State University >> +1 503 725 2411 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sbe-discussion mailing list >> Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Sbe-discussion mailing list > Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion -- ________________________________ Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen David R?thlisberger Doktorand Software Composition Group IAM Uni Bern From yeoldemac at gmail.com Wed Apr 30 20:23:21 2008 From: yeoldemac at gmail.com (YeOlde Mac) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 11:23:21 -0700 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: Quinto Example Code Not Working In-Reply-To: <4818473D.9060402@iam.unibe.ch> References: <9BC188BA-0E84-4B14-BCB8-E6A090C0A78E@free.fr> <1310C257-5373-4B2D-B18A-E915BDA3F418@cs.pdx.edu> <4818473D.9060402@iam.unibe.ch> Message-ID: <5C871D98-2BCA-4C88-8C20-3DC860901EEB@gmail.com> Thanks for the information. Yes, I was starting to think it was a (intentional) "feature" - it's one of those situations I suppose where the designer of the interface needs to choose between options, both of which have pluses and minuses. The drawback in this case is that it's not intuitively obvious what's going on (how to get the blank template), but once you know it's OK, and does have the advantage (I suppose) of being able to see the class definition, as you point out. Since you can see the class definition otherwise, I'm not sure I see it as a big advantage, but I'm a newbie, so I probably just don't understand yet why. You're right, the book should reflect how it works now. On Apr 30, 2008, at 3:17 AM, David R?thlisberger wrote: > >> I'm not sure if we are talking about the same issue. The situation, I >> discovered (since my initial post), is that one as to click on the >> --all--, then on the category below it, then on --all-- again to >> actually select it and get the blank template. > > Right, I can confirm that. This is a feature of OmniBrowser, the > version of the > system browser you are using. In the book another browser is > described, the old > traditional browser of Squeak. This browser does not select the -- > all-- category > automatically when selecting a class while OmniBrowser does this. > In order to still > be able to see the class definition, OmniBrowser does not show the > blank template > when automatically selecting the --all-- category. > This is a glitch of OmniBrowser, although it is a feature, not a bug. > > The actual problem I think is that SBE does not describe the same > browser as the > Squeak-dev is using by default. Although both browsers are similar, > there are some > minor differences that can create quite some confusion. > I personally believe that this problem should get addressed by > either describing the > OmniBrowser in the book or by changing the default browser in the > dev-image to the > old browser. > > Cheers, > David > >> On Apr 29, 2008, at 9:28 AM, Andrew P. Black wrote: >> >>> There was a version of the browser that wouldn't let one edit in the >>> --all-- virtual category. I had hoped that this was long dead. >>> >>> Andrew >>> >>> On 28 Apr 2008, at 22:59, stephane ducasse wrote: >>> >>>> this is strange and may be not a problem with the code but wth the >>>> browser. >>>> try to add a method category and to paste the code. >>>> >>>> >>>> stef >>>> >>>> On Apr 29, 2008, at 3:31 AM, YeOlde Mac wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm working through the Squeak by Example book and ran into a >>>>> snag. >>>>> The code on page 33 for the Quinto game is returning an error >>>>> message. >>>>> I have the SBECell selected and "-- all --" is highlighted in the >>>>> right pane, just like in the book, but it responds with the >>>>> message >>>>> "Unknown variable: initialize please correct or cancel: / >>>>> declare >>>>> temp / declare instance / cancel". It doesn't seem to be >>>>> recognizing >>>>> "initialize". >>>>> >>>>> Here's the code: >>>>> >>>>> initialize >>>>> super initialize. >>>>> self label: ''. >>>>> self borderWidth: 2. >>>>> bounds := 0 at 0 corner: 16 at 16. >>>>> offColor := Color paleYellow. >>>>> onColor := Color paleBlue darker. >>>>> self useSquareCorners. >>>>> self turnOff >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I even downloaded the code for the book from Squeaksource and >>>>> pasted >>>>> it in and it does the same thing. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> - Eric (Dr. Zephy) >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Sbe-discussion mailing list >>>>> Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch >>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sbe-discussion mailing list >>>> Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch >>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion >>> >>> Professor Andrew P. Black >>> Department of Computer Science >>> Portland State University >>> +1 503 725 2411 >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sbe-discussion mailing list >>> Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sbe-discussion mailing list >> Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion > > -- > ________________________________ > Mit freundlichen Gr?ssen > David R?thlisberger > Doktorand Software Composition Group > IAM Uni Bern > _______________________________________________ > Sbe-discussion mailing list > Sbe-discussion at iam.unibe.ch > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion From denker at iam.unibe.ch Wed Apr 30 20:35:43 2008 From: denker at iam.unibe.ch (Marcus Denker) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:35:43 +0200 Subject: [sbe-discussion] Re: Quinto Example Code Not Working In-Reply-To: <5C871D98-2BCA-4C88-8C20-3DC860901EEB@gmail.com> References: <9BC188BA-0E84-4B14-BCB8-E6A090C0A78E@free.fr> <1310C257-5373-4B2D-B18A-E915BDA3F418@cs.pdx.edu> <4818473D.9060402@iam.unibe.ch> <5C871D98-2BCA-4C88-8C20-3DC860901EEB@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0FE75062-A018-451A-AE2D-175CA69C832A@iam.unibe.ch> On 30.04.2008, at 20:23, YeOlde Mac wrote: > Thanks for the information. Yes, I was starting to think it was a > (intentional) "feature" - it's one of those situations I suppose > where the designer of the interface needs to choose between options, This, of course, would imply that someone would have done "interface design" for Squeak... an interesting thought. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- denker at iam.unibe.ch http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~denker